Build me a timing table

[99socalfrc]

My efforts to increase timing on my 05 GTO have nver lead to much besides knock.

Mods are:
224/228 581/588 114LSA cam
Kooks 1 7/8 headers
Edge 3000 stall
UD pulley

Any help on the timing table is appreciated even if it is just gameplan help. ie what RPM should it be rampingup by, where the timing should peak etc.

[mcfarlnd]

log?

[99socalfrc]

I don't have any recent logs, I plan on getting some at the track next friday, no one has an idea of where I should start with the timing on my car?

[99socalfrc]

Wow, about as much help as my Transmission thread (basically zero), this board makes me feel sorry for anyone new to this, pathetic. I'll go back to expiramenting

[Bill@HPTuners]

Usually at peak tq you'll have lower timing since you would be at peak cylinder pressure at that point and can usually ramp up slightly after peak tq.

[Bill@HPTuners]

Wow, about as much help as my Transmission thread (basically zero), this board makes me feel sorry for anyone new to this, pathetic. I'll go back to expiramenting

You had 23 responses in the thread you started in early 2007 http://www.hptuners.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9666 and MNR-0, one of our moderators here responded to your other thread http://www.hptuners.com/forum/showthread.php?t=19341 where you asked some general questions. His tips seem pretty good so I'm not sure what else you are looking for. You won't always have 100 reply's to each of your threads especially when you've already been given the information everyone else would give afterwards.

Please start by reading this thread http://www.hptuners.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11178

[COWLGMC]

Wow, about as much help as my Transmission thread (basically zero), this board makes me feel sorry for anyone new to this, pathetic. I'll go back to expiramenting

Tuning is not cut and dried....post this here and that there.You have to know where you are rite now...ie scan files or a log.I would say put your timing at 30 degrees all the way accross the board and see what happens...lol
Seriously....add a lttle timing at a time in your max power areas,you will have to scan to find that out.Make small changes at a time and you may want to decrease your knock sensors a little as well

[WS6FirebirdTA00]

You want someone to go through the trouble of building you a timing table, for free, and you wonder why you have not had many replies? lol

Ask for help and advice, not for someone to do all the work. Plus, without a log, there is very little we can do. The table you have now looks *OK*, but without a log we can not say for sure.

[RWTD]

Curious, do you still have cats? I assume you do, since your name suggests you're in Cali. You most likely run 91 octane, as well.

You should also get rid of your TM.

[Texsrt4]

Wow, about as much help as my Transmission thread (basically zero), this board makes me feel sorry for anyone new to this, pathetic. I'll go back to expiramenting

want some help, start with the stock timing map. add some timing and drive the car. pull back where it knocks, add where it doesnt. sometimes some cars dont want any more timing, other times you can add significant amounts.

i would recommend loosing the attitude. tuning is not for everyone. you have to know what you are doing or you will HURT your motor. sometimes you will need to learn to figure it out for yourself, and if you cant, go see your local tuner. they make their living by knowing this stuff

[WS6FirebirdTA00]

More timing added does not always mean more power. You can add too much timing, make no more power (even hurt it) and still show no knock.

[BBA]

More timing added does not always mean more power. You can add too much timing, make no more power (even hurt it) and still show no knock.

I've only seen thsi when people are running E85 with it's 100+ octane rating. As for any LS motor I have scanned (about 12) they all have KR in the power band with factory timing on 93 Octane. It's beyond me how you would increase timing for those cells without any KR.

Truth is, you have to target where you do timing increases. The tune I have posted has timing tables that work very well with all LS2 motors and even on LS3 when you do logging and reduce where it needs it only via eliminating KR adjustments.

[BBA]

Oh, and what ever you do, do not reduce knock sensor sensitivity. This is something only needed in heavily modified engines where wild cam lobe ramps make a lot of noise...then you just have to hope and pray there is no detonation because if there is, and your sensors do not pick it up, you will loose a piston.

[RWTD]

I witnessed my friend's '02 Z06 make zero more power going from 22 degrees to 28 degrees, and there wasn't any signs of knock. I tested about 10 different times just to confirm. This was on his 402 stroker that made 549 rwhp on my Dynojet.

I've seen similar situations arise on LSx based vehicles, as well, but definitely not as severe as the above mention.

As for knock sensor sensitivity, unfortunately the Gen4 vehicles have way too sensitive knock sensors from the factory. Nearly every LS2 and LS7 vehicle I've tested are terrible about false knock straight from the factory. Even the LS3 vehicles I've been toying with on the street are getting false knock on the factory tune. When you pick up a range of 5 to 10+ rwhp on these vehicles from just turning off the knock sensors on the factory tune, you start to put 2 and 2 together.

Keep in mind, Ford doesn't give knock detection on any pre '05 Mustang GT, and didn't give any knock detection for the Terminators, the Lightnings, the GT40, nor the GT500. These latter vehicles are even supercharged!