N/A EFI Cars
Have you noticed the GM Stock Tune doesn't even go that rich???
N/A EFI Cars
Have you noticed the GM Stock Tune doesn't even go that rich???
Originally Posted by Frost
I am a big time street tuning fan, but this underscores the importance of having BOTH sides of the coin. Why would you leave a car at .86 to .88 if it made no power leaning it out past .78 right? I left the car I tuned at .8. Going to .86 or .88 would just mean higher cyl temps and less resistance to knock. .88 is for N/A carsI think everyone "forgets" that the LNF is direct injected. Totally different technology than port injected. The injection of the fuel directly into the combustion chamber via a high pressure fuel pump which atomizes the fuel allows you to run the mixture much leaner without raising the combustion chamber temperatures. Injecting too much fuel can cause fuel wash of the cylinder walls which can damage the rings. In a DI car you shouldn't need to go richer than ~.85, except for COT protection, in most situations.N/A EFI Cars
Have you noticed the GM Stock Tune doesn't even go that rich???
I get it back to play with shortly, and with an EGT this time, so we shall see.
Hopefully it's a real EGT, the one in the ECU is calculated. Too rich on mine = knock. .88 is golden on 93 pump gas for most.
'12 Camaro T3 2SS/RS LS3 M6, SLP TVS 2300, Flex Fuel
Wow... .80 lambda. The car hates you. Tuning for one of the biggest LNF companies in the market, and compiling all of our results, and all of the results from the most respected guys here (IAB, BYT, & TERM, mainly), the resulting torque from leaning it out is substantial. Yours had to have been a fluke. I typically pick up around 10 ft lbs for each .1 lambda I lean out. My base map starts at .84 lambda, and I usually run customer cars at .86. This is extremely conservative in these cars.
Play with it some more, and I am willing to bet you get better results. Running this lean on a DI motor is no issue. Running rich has been proven time and time again to cause knock, and I have noticed I can run quite a bit more timing on top, if i run it leaner.
Heck, we run one of our big turbo cars at 13.0 afr, without a stitch of knock. Ran a meth injected car at 14.0afr, with no knock. These motors love lean. See, what you notice in port injected cars, as you lean them out, you see more knock. This is what kills the motors. Not the case here. Sure, we might be playing with heat a bit, but you have to think, something will heat up to the point that it would cause preignition... so it would knock.
Just my point of view.
It's a stand alone EGT, independent of PCM totally. I have already talked to the owner about a nice progressive methanol kit from Alkycontrol and he is in favor. The car made good gains with timing and the move from 14.5deg-up showed the first small return on this setup, so I went back to 14.5. I couldn't know if it was a fluke on the first car, but I ran from stock to further down in steps and it just didn't have impact.
At any rate I hope to see more of these in the future (almost ALL v8 work), and I appreciate the advice given here.
Yeah, these are ALOT different than the V8's. Its very weird to compare them. Basically, for meth, we run about a 14.0afr, and still relatively conservative timing (for meth, at least) around 18* or so. the most power we pick up is actually from running the car so much leaner, and the fact the air charge is so much cooler. I would be interested to see the EGT gauge log though. I have never used one on the LNF, since we really haven't had any issues with heat on anything we have tuned.
Remember, false knock is very prevalent on the Ecotecs too. So you may be seeing false knock.
It had some real knock in some places but it was less than expected. I wasn't comparing them to V8s, I was saying that is what I get on the daily. The EGT is nice; alleviates doubt.
I know you weren't comparing, I was. The V8's have a million tables to confuse, lol. Must be nice, haha.
It should make a difference. My car on 0.84 lambda is slower on my acceleration times vs 0.88 lambda. The difference between 0.88 lambda and 0.78 lambda is even more significant on my acceleration times (about a full second or longer on a 60-100 pull). No matter what you do richer with more timing will end up being slower than leaner with less timing on these cars. These cars love 0.88 lambdaI am a big time street tuning fan, but this underscores the importance of having BOTH sides of the coin. Why would you leave a car at .86 to .88 if it made no power leaning it out past .78 right? I left the car I tuned at .8. Going to .86 or .88 would just mean higher cyl temps and less resistance to knock. .88 is for N/A cars
Good news for the LNF guys! I have some insider info that the new LS series engines will have a potential upgrades for the LNF
Keeping my eyes open for some opportunities to come out with some WERKS solutions for ya guys
4 additional cylinders???
I think I smell bigger injectors.
'12 Camaro T3 2SS/RS LS3 M6, SLP TVS 2300, Flex Fuel
No and yes, and some more. I am supposed to keep it on the DL, so thats all you get right now. Hopefully I can get some more information on it, present it to the boss man, and POTENTIALLY grab up some prototype parts to start some testing
I'd take an LS9 in a Kappa plz.
I remember a long while back GM showed off some GDI LSx motor, but they went dark after that. Must be coming back online. I ASSume this will be called Gen V.
Last edited by Gimpster; 11-01-2010 at 04:22 PM.
We can do that
Well, we SHOULD be able to do that, assuming someone comes up with the money, haha.
We are doing alot of conversions right now for a company, which is helping the R&D of the V8 swap. Things such as the new 4L90E from the new CTS-V with the flappy paddles being fully integrated just like OEM, plus a few other options. But, this isn't the place for that
I know this is off topic, but how does the 6spd auto from the mailibu handle power? it would be nice to have a 6spd lol.
Does it have to be Auto? Can you get me the trans code for it? Basically, to break down the trans codes, the # in the code is the Newton Meters of tq it can handle. IDK the conversion off the top of my head, but say a 4T45 is in the car, it can handle 450 NM of tq.
450 N/m = 331 ft/lbs.
'12 Camaro T3 2SS/RS LS3 M6, SLP TVS 2300, Flex Fuel
idk the trans code, I know its in this malibu rental I have lol, I prefer a stick but this auto has better gear ratios and autos are good for straight line. also it has the button shift on the shifter which I'm sure could be converted to paddle shift that I've seen on other chevy 4cyls(my hhr actually has the holes for the mount but idk bout cobalts)
I didn't realize that's how the trans worked, does the 92 4t65e handle 650nm? I didn't think it did... I thought it was 4(spd)t(transaxle)6(cyl)5(dunno)e(electronic)
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