I agree with that a lot...
definitely not a blanket thing...
but its a starting point for testing..
I may be able to put my own car on the dyno next week.... have a buddy that wants to see how my car reacts on his dyno before I put this "cock of Thor" cam in it(yeah.. its really going to be that big) and we may play around with the EIOT on the dyno as well
-Scott -
If it's a loaded dyno I would play around with this at partial throttle and monitor HP/Torque at light loads under 3000rpm. That would be a good indicator on getting the injector timing pan'd out.
In your test drive did your setup run smoother at lower RPM's 1500-2300rpm? That is where mine really woke up and smoothed out.
James Short - [email protected]
Located in Central Kentucky
ShorTuning
2020 Camaro 2SS | BTR 230 | GPI CNC Heads | MSD Intake | Rotofab | 2" LT's | Flex Fuel | 638rwhp / 540rwtq
2002 Camaro | LSX 427 | CID LS7's | Twin GT5088's | Haltech Nexus R5 | RPM TH400
Yeah DynoDynamic's US headquarters are based about 30min's up the road from me haha. If/When I can afford the payment on one I'll be purchasing one from them! Dang good Dyno's. Keep us updated on what ya find! Also curious on the power numbers you make compared to the dynojet numbers!
James Short - [email protected]
Located in Central Kentucky
ShorTuning
2020 Camaro 2SS | BTR 230 | GPI CNC Heads | MSD Intake | Rotofab | 2" LT's | Flex Fuel | 638rwhp / 540rwtq
2002 Camaro | LSX 427 | CID LS7's | Twin GT5088's | Haltech Nexus R5 | RPM TH400
I don't think I am going too deep in to this. I believe you have to so one can have a complete understanding of the change in events and what would be "ideal".
Good point LSx. Finishing the injection some point earlier could mean entering the chamber a bit later. The LS7 finishes, at low engine speeds, around 370*IIRC. Just throwing some numbers out there I figured by 0.020" the scavenging would be to a minimum so I was using that for a starting point. 0.050" numbers may be better to use when you account for the transfer delay of the fuel to the cylinder. Of course this will vary a bit and as you said there are a lot of other variables that may change this car to car.
Sulski Performance Tuning
2000 WS6 M6 - LS6 (long block, refreshed top end), 10.8:1 CR, 90 mm ported FAST, Exo-Skel, 227/232 cam, QTP HVMC, EWP, GMMG, 9" w/4.11s
2018 Sierra SLT 5.3L A8 - Airaid intake tube, GM Borla catback, L86 Intake/Ported TB
Also, digging back to my days of balancing chemical equations, I believe the AFR reading on a WB is based on the values from combustion itself. Unburnt fuel going through the exhaust is not read as it was not part of combustion. Better mixing means more fuel in the chamber for combustion, giving a richer reading. This has also been an area I would like to research more. As your cam overlap increases and scavenging gets better, you have the potential to pump more fresh air through the exhaust thus giving a "leaner" reading. My thoughts/questions at least. I've noticed the larger my car the "leaner" the AFR on the top end it can stand and make gains in power. Not sure if there is any truth to this or if this pumping of fresh air is negligible. On the positive side it just means most cars may be rich (if it holds true).
I may be wrong here, it has been several years since thermo 1 and 2
Sulski Performance Tuning
2000 WS6 M6 - LS6 (long block, refreshed top end), 10.8:1 CR, 90 mm ported FAST, Exo-Skel, 227/232 cam, QTP HVMC, EWP, GMMG, 9" w/4.11s
2018 Sierra SLT 5.3L A8 - Airaid intake tube, GM Borla catback, L86 Intake/Ported TB
when testing 02's you can pass propane over the wb sensor and it will show rich.. with that you could take a can / jar and poor gas in it, cut a hole in the lid and put the wb sensor in and test if the raw fuel fumes change the afr readings.. as the wb messures 02, I would say it does change..
But now we are in a system that little oxygen is present. If you run a motor at 5000 RPM (by driving it with another motor) and simply inject fuel but do not burn it, I would imagine it show oxygen as a percentage rather than AFR because it would be high. I think the added vapor that is unburnt will still show up lean.
Sulski Performance Tuning
2000 WS6 M6 - LS6 (long block, refreshed top end), 10.8:1 CR, 90 mm ported FAST, Exo-Skel, 227/232 cam, QTP HVMC, EWP, GMMG, 9" w/4.11s
2018 Sierra SLT 5.3L A8 - Airaid intake tube, GM Borla catback, L86 Intake/Ported TB
2000 GMC 2500 2-bar SD
Stock LM7, LTs, TBSS intake manifold
I agree.
Sulski Performance Tuning
2000 WS6 M6 - LS6 (long block, refreshed top end), 10.8:1 CR, 90 mm ported FAST, Exo-Skel, 227/232 cam, QTP HVMC, EWP, GMMG, 9" w/4.11s
2018 Sierra SLT 5.3L A8 - Airaid intake tube, GM Borla catback, L86 Intake/Ported TB
Won't the changes cause the AFR guage to stop showing nutty swings in AFR caused by raw fuel passing over the sensor?
Should
Sulski Performance Tuning
2000 WS6 M6 - LS6 (long block, refreshed top end), 10.8:1 CR, 90 mm ported FAST, Exo-Skel, 227/232 cam, QTP HVMC, EWP, GMMG, 9" w/4.11s
2018 Sierra SLT 5.3L A8 - Airaid intake tube, GM Borla catback, L86 Intake/Ported TB
Well I just got back from a log, going to review it. First glace doesn't seem like a whole lot really changed. I haven't driven the car in almost 3 months so it is hard to say if it is better or worse. I did start up cold with the whole table moved up, plus 2 on the cold end. Cold start seems a little rough but I don't know if that was from just sitting for so long. I did drive it fairly cold and it did not break up like it normally does though.
Sulski Performance Tuning
2000 WS6 M6 - LS6 (long block, refreshed top end), 10.8:1 CR, 90 mm ported FAST, Exo-Skel, 227/232 cam, QTP HVMC, EWP, GMMG, 9" w/4.11s
2018 Sierra SLT 5.3L A8 - Airaid intake tube, GM Borla catback, L86 Intake/Ported TB
Looking at idle, my injection start point is approximately 10.5* BTDC and finished 95* ATDC. My EVC at 0.050" is 9.5* ATDC.
I think I am going to try using my cam 0.020" values for the start. If that doesn't change much I am going to try to put it in there so the injection does not start until the EVC at 0.020" happens. This should make sure I get a good spray without any loss through the exhaust. If I see no changes here then I don't know lol
Sulski Performance Tuning
2000 WS6 M6 - LS6 (long block, refreshed top end), 10.8:1 CR, 90 mm ported FAST, Exo-Skel, 227/232 cam, QTP HVMC, EWP, GMMG, 9" w/4.11s
2018 Sierra SLT 5.3L A8 - Airaid intake tube, GM Borla catback, L86 Intake/Ported TB
Just ran at idle from stock values all the way up to 6.65 and nothing changed. AFR stayed exactly the same, no real different felt in how the car runs, I honestly question if anything is even changing it was that steady.
Sulski Performance Tuning
2000 WS6 M6 - LS6 (long block, refreshed top end), 10.8:1 CR, 90 mm ported FAST, Exo-Skel, 227/232 cam, QTP HVMC, EWP, GMMG, 9" w/4.11s
2018 Sierra SLT 5.3L A8 - Airaid intake tube, GM Borla catback, L86 Intake/Ported TB