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Thread: Nonsensical issues with STS twin 2010 Camaro

  1. #1
    Tuner in Training
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    Nonsensical issues with STS twin 2010 Camaro

    Relevant vehicle information:
    2010 SS Camaro, 6spd, stock displacement LS3 with forged rods/pistons (unknown CR)
    STS twin turbo kit, stock intake manifold/tb
    221/223 .609/.610 116+4LSA (previous shop spec'd the cam)
    Aeromotive pump, FAST rails, ID850 injectors, return system, regulated before rails @ 52psi
    Car was "tuned" (and I use that term loosely) before we got it with a blown up motor
    Tune is OL MAF-only

    For the most part, I've been able to un-fubar the "tune" that was on the car (I saved over what was on there...pissed myself off as I now can't show anyone how terrible it was aside from the picture I took of the PE table). Car now runs fantastic except for 2 issues that I cannot for the life of me figure out.

    1. Cold start is WAY lean, no matter what I've tried. I've cranked up the IVT gain to the point that it commands low 11s when cold, still pegs the wideband lean (unfortunately the AFX we use for tuning only reads to 16, so I can't tell you exactly how lean). Won't hold idle, stumbles its ass off when moving from a stop unless you get it over 2k rpm. Once the car is warmed up it starts fine, idles fine, etc. and goes to the commanded 11.3 @ WOT.

    2. The first drive cycle of the day runs different than it does the rest of the day once the motor is warm, without touching the tune. I saved logs of this an hour ago - first log it's lean everywhere, turned the car off for a few minutes while I got food, got back in it and drove home with it rich everywhere. My knowledge of computers tells me this is completely irrational - the settings in the tune should tell the car to do the same thing every time, and with fuel trims turned off, it should run the same way every time.

    Any ideas on these two issues is greatly appreciated, the car has been down since 2k13 in March and I'm sure the owner would like it back about as much as we'd like to get paid for all the work lol.

  2. #2
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    I suppose it would help if I attached the logs/tune. Log 1 is first drive, log 2 is after the car was warm.
    Attached Files Attached Files

  3. #3
    Senior Tuner 5_Liter_Eater's Avatar
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    Why open loop and why 52# of fuel pressure?
    Bill Winters

    Former owner/builder/tuner of the FarmVette
    Out of the LSx tuning game

  4. #4
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    Open loop because I'm still tuning and don't want fuel trims jacking with anything (my personal car hasn't monitored narrowbands in 2 years) and 52psi because that's where it was set when we got the car. Are either of those things relevant? (Serious question, not trying to be a smartass)

  5. #5
    Senior Tuner SultanHassanMasTuning's Avatar
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    ^take a look under fuel system, you will see that the pcm still believes fuel pressure is set to 58 psi.
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  6. #6
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    It shouldn't matter what it thinks the pressure is, the injector flow rate is set at one rate for all pressures

  7. #7
    Senior Tuner SultanHassanMasTuning's Avatar
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    did you try having it set to 58?
    Follow @MASTUNING visit www.mastuned.com
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  8. #8
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    Removed vacuum line from the regulator so that pressure is static @58psi, changed injector data to match. No dice. Just finished driving it (hot start) idle started out in the mid 13s, 10 minutes down the road it was pegging the wideband at 16.

  9. #9
    Senior Tuner 10_SS's Avatar
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    How did you get your "Open Loop IVT" Gains vs. MAP setup the way they are? I would think they need to be somewhat sloped, yours start around 1.8 then flatline to 1.0 above 147F. Mine start around 1.3 and come down to 1.001 at 262F. Seems like a huge difference.

    Not sure if that will make a difference... just something I noticed as drastically different than stock as my table should be stock.

    Then I see your Injector Flow Rate Vs. Pressure is all set to 91.5. Prob not a big deal? Mine ramps from 39 to 96.
    Last edited by 10_SS; 09-17-2013 at 11:53 AM.
    2010 Camaro LS3 (E38 ECU - Spark only). MS3X running complete RTT fuel control (wideband).
    Whipple 2.9L, 3.875" Pulley, kit injectors, supplied MSD Boost-A-Pump, stock pump
    LG Motorsports 1 7/8" Headers - No Cats, stock mid pipe with JBA Axle Back
    ZL1 Wheels/Tires

  10. #10
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    IVT table was changed to try and counteract it being stupid lean on cold starts. I changed them to 1.0 from 1.001 because while it's not a HUGE difference (14.68 vs 14.66) I'm picky about having anything messing with the commanded AFR that doesn't need to be. IFR is set to one rate because this car has a custom fuel system that doesn't use the computer to control anything except for firing the injectors.

  11. #11
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    why don't you run the car in closed loop to see where your fuel trims end up at when its acting funny? granted you put the AFR back to stoich so the sensors can read, this is just to backup the reading you're getting from the AFX, I know you said the car feels funny as well but you need to verify that the sensor in the wideband is good. I had a problem where a wideband sensor failed and took like 10-15 minutes of BEING ON before it started reading correctly and would read rich or lean (cant remember) the whole time during those first 15mins.

  12. #12
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    also is dynamic airflow disabled correctly? That's not how I do it at least.

    set Dynamic airflow disable to 400rpm and re-enable to 350rpm