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Thread: Start from scratch or keep fiddling with this?

  1. #1
    Tuner in Training
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    Start from scratch or keep fiddling with this?

    Just got a 2000 regal gs up and running. I don't remember 99 being this much of a pain in the A to dial in. The rundown on this car: I bought the car a year ago as a rolling chassis that had been sitting in a garage for about 5 years or so. Then i got ahold of the engine that was originally in the car, has a comp cams cam in it. Just got around to putting it all together and got it running about a month ago. The PCM that came with the car i was told was tuned for the cam. It cad a 3.25" inch pulley and SLP headers. So during my assembly I rebuilt one of my old transmissions out of my 99 and needed a torque converter so why not upgrade lol, got a zzp 3000rpm stall converter. I knew the stock injectors were maxed out on the 3.25 in pullley and wanted to go smaller anyway so got 42.5lb injectors and a 3.0 pullley. Obviously drained the 7 year old gas out and replaced the fuel filter, as well as the new injectors and i've probably put close to 1000 miles on it now so fuel system is clean. So the tune I started with is for the cam, headers, 3.25 pulley and probably an intake as far as i know. So I've been trying to dial in my air fuel ratios using the russ k method. I used a different method on my 99 but i cant find the write up i followed for that one.

    So with russ k's method first i had to figure out how to get the damn MAF AFR % error histogram to work, finally figured that out then figured out filtering so as to not factor in dfco. Car had been running pig rich all the time. First attempt multiply by percent, went way lean, so i backtracked and did multiply by % - half. Got close but still rich all the time. Next step multiply by % - half after another scan and the damn thing went way lean again, my AEM wideband couldnt even read it it was so lean, backtracked again and made a few small adjustments in individual cells, smothing the table etc. Made a edjucated guess adjustment for above 7500hz and this is where I'm at: sitting idle 15.4-15.7:1, steady cruise with minimal load 14.5-14.7:1, steady cruise tcc locked up or uphill 13.7:1, wot 10.5-11.1:1 and off throttle coast 15.7-16.8:1 then dfco goes out of range. I'm mostly ok with this just confused because i can be in the same frequency range with steady cruise and vary from 13.7:1 with load and 14.7:1 without load and I'm not in enrichment or dfco and my 99 was a bit more stable during steady cruise with and without load (maybe because this one is cammed?)

    Now for my issues with where I'm at that do concern me. At idle in gear (at operating temperature) she surges a little if I brake torque it up to 900rm its happy desired idle is still set to stock (685rpm at operating temperature) thinking maybe I should bring that up a bit and that should solve this, I'm guessing this is because of the cam, I know most of the mail order tunes for cammed L67s bump the idle up. My biggest concern is on hot restarts, sometimes on a hot restart she's lean and stays lean by probably like 2:1 so 15.7:1 when it is normally 13.7:1 and it stalled on me once at a red light when this was happening, other times on hot restart shes rich by about 2:1 so 11.7:1 when it is normally 13.7:1 this only happens on a hot restart. From a cold start I can drive for hour and this never happens. I'm not sure if it did this with the original tune as i don't think i did any hot restarts before tuning.

    So aside from my hot start issue and the variance between load and no load steady cruise i think I'm ready to start playing with timing, i currently have no kr, and yes I know the sensors are working as i accidentally got into the boost a couple times and got some kr while I was tuning for base afr below 7500hz.

    So question one. Is my steady cruise variance and idle issue because of my cam or am i missing something with my tune? I have no experience with cams prior to this.

    Question two. Any input on my hot start issue? I don't think its vacuum leak or mechanical because its only on a hot restart and not when it gets hot form a cold start and its fine on a cold start.

    Question three. Before I get deeper into playing with this and smash my head against the wall as I'm making adjustments to someone else's FUBAR tune as i have no idea if the guy before me had any idea what he was doing, I am a GM tech and i can put a completely stock calibration into this thing for free at work. Should I just do that and start form scratch?

    Finally my last question. If I start from scratch or even if I don't for that matter. What should I know about tuning for a cam?

    If you've read all this thank you for your patience I've tried to be a descriptive as possible. I don't have a ton of time to be on here and do most of my scans commuting to and from work as i have sole custody of 3 kids and my oldest is 5 so i have very little time to go joy riding in this car for data and am hoping to get it dialed in as best as possible before the snow flies as its coming off the road as soon as salt goes down, i don't want this one meeting the same fate as my 99 which has been reduced to commuter/winter beater duties until the cancer kills her off completely (rockers and radiator support are pretty much gone and now the trunk is starting along with the rear bumper wish i had though of pulling of the plastics during my undercarriage cleanings).
    99 Suburban - slow, almost stock
    99 Regal GS - quick, some work done to it, 327k just cant kill the damn thing 13.99 best 1/4
    00 Regal GS - Fast, hates tires, work in progress, just finished assembling then the track closed
    03 R6 - probably gonna get rid of this thing in the spring before I end up in jail, lol yeah right i said that last year and the year before

  2. #2
    Tuning Addict 5FDP's Avatar
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    Can't say much without you posting the tune.

    Installing a cam on a 3800 doesnt really change a whole lot, the computers are so simple/stupid really. You can basically tune the whole car using like 5-7 tables. Idle, maf, timing hi/low, pe enrichment and a few adder tables for timing and afr. The rest is transmission and fan settings that are optional.
    2016 Silverado CCSB 5.3/6L80e, not as slow but still heavy.

    If you don't post your tune and logs when you have questions you aren't helping yourself.

  3. #3
    Tuner in Training
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    This is whats in it now
    11.19.15 setting wot enrichment.hpt

    I can compare to my stock 99 file. My current 99 file. My original file that came in this car and several in between files if you would like to see any others for comparison sake.
    99 Suburban - slow, almost stock
    99 Regal GS - quick, some work done to it, 327k just cant kill the damn thing 13.99 best 1/4
    00 Regal GS - Fast, hates tires, work in progress, just finished assembling then the track closed
    03 R6 - probably gonna get rid of this thing in the spring before I end up in jail, lol yeah right i said that last year and the year before

  4. #4
    Tuner in Training
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    Think I figured out my hot restart issue. My o2 sensor was messing up and I didn't care because I was forcing closed loop while scanning. I wasn't scanning when the problem happened and i still had the o2 hooked up so it probably was when it went into closed loop that I had issues. Ive since unplugged it and it didn't act up the last hot restart. Guess I'll be either getting a new o2 or just say the hell with it, run open loop all the time and just keep an eye on the wideband.
    99 Suburban - slow, almost stock
    99 Regal GS - quick, some work done to it, 327k just cant kill the damn thing 13.99 best 1/4
    00 Regal GS - Fast, hates tires, work in progress, just finished assembling then the track closed
    03 R6 - probably gonna get rid of this thing in the spring before I end up in jail, lol yeah right i said that last year and the year before

  5. #5
    base AFR in PE is 11. not sure why it is 11 all the way across the board. you also have all zeros in the PE table for activation. makes me think you are always in PE, since the computer thinks you want PE with 0+ airflow. check your fuel trims from left to right side. my guess is that you are a little richer on the drivers side always. Timing tables look really low. I'm not really familiar with your engine, but i would look into adding some timing. knock retard looks to be a little aggressive for my taste. that is all i could see. I wish the E38 pcms were as simple as that one. LOL

  6. #6
    Tuning Addict 5FDP's Avatar
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    The car only have 2 o2 sensors for both banks, and only the first sensor matters on 97-00 cars. So it can only gets trims from both banks unless he has the sensor in the cross over pipe.

    Your VE table is all sorts of chopped and whacked, I've never touched the VE table on a 3800 car, to me it's never worth it because it's a MAF based setup. It may use the VE for minor changes on the fly but the MAF is the king here, the table stops at 105KPA or 0 vaccum anyway so anything under boost is all MAF.
    2016 Silverado CCSB 5.3/6L80e, not as slow but still heavy.

    If you don't post your tune and logs when you have questions you aren't helping yourself.

  7. #7
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    Correct. Only "had" 2 o2 sensors sensor 1 for fueling, sensor 2 for cat effeciency. Stock they are in the downpipe. I'm running SLP headers so no cat, no egr. Have those codes set to not repaorting. I haven't touched VE or timing tables yet those are what was in it when i got it, like i said i have know idea what the guy how tuned it before i got it did and was thinking maybe i should start from scratch as i can dump a factory tune in it straight from GM at work for free then start over, or just compare with my 99gs files I have on my laptop already. My hot start issue is resolved in open loop, so 02 issue. The 11.0:1 across the board was my last file in when i started tuning the second half of my MAF table for enrichment. My current config enables enrichment my throttle % and its been running pretty good now. I though the timing tables seemed quite low, maybe the guy before was combatting knock that way because the stock injectors couldn't flow enough fuel for the 3.25 pulley. I was also wondering why he had injector offset for all of bank 1, and as far as what I've done with it I'm not liking the jump in my maf table after 7500hz but its running good like that. I just keep thinking that maybe i should start from a stock tune as my 99 wasn't this much of a pain and i started from stock. Then i can properly change my injector table for the 42.5lb injectors.
    99 Suburban - slow, almost stock
    99 Regal GS - quick, some work done to it, 327k just cant kill the damn thing 13.99 best 1/4
    00 Regal GS - Fast, hates tires, work in progress, just finished assembling then the track closed
    03 R6 - probably gonna get rid of this thing in the spring before I end up in jail, lol yeah right i said that last year and the year before

  8. #8
    Tuner in Training
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    Forcasting possible snow mix for saturday so this may be on hold till the spring. I want to put it away before the roads get salted.
    99 Suburban - slow, almost stock
    99 Regal GS - quick, some work done to it, 327k just cant kill the damn thing 13.99 best 1/4
    00 Regal GS - Fast, hates tires, work in progress, just finished assembling then the track closed
    03 R6 - probably gonna get rid of this thing in the spring before I end up in jail, lol yeah right i said that last year and the year before