Wouldn't injector PW be after fuel trims are added? If so, then I don't see why you couldn't do it in closed loop. You still know the fuel mass (inj pw * flow rate) and you know actual lambda/AFR for that fuel, so with that you can calculate how much air there must have been. From that, GMVE.
I could be wrong about the reported PW being the "trimmed" value but I don't believe I am
I certainly cant say that my tune isnt crap. I tuned my maf within 2% for the most part using the ltft's. one side of it that concerned me was difference in readings between banks and the fact that I only have my wbo2 in one of them so Im only ever geting half of the story from that sensor. If there is a experiment that I could run in both open and closed loop and look at it from there to see if the CL option is another way to do it let me know and ill do it and post them up for profesional analysis. Ill buy another wbo2 if I have to but really would like to avoid it.
As far as I've seen you're wrong. Even if not it's just another variable to eliminate.Originally Posted by schpenxel
Use your o2mV reading to verify both banks are running the same.
Interesting. I'll mess around with it later to try to see. Someone else suggested the same a while back when I was trying to figure out how to do this
Ok so my Mv's will still be reading even though im open loop?
Yes
If the IPW was trim corrected we wouldn't need the wideband to do this.
No shit.
Post a log and tune if you want help
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Easy nowI still believe that there is a way to incorporate st's into the equations... After all - even the wideband is just used as an error calculator... Just not sure of the equation required?
2010 Vette Stock Bottom LS3 - LS2 APS Twin Turbo Kit, Trick Flow Heads and Custom Cam - 12psi - 714rwhp and 820rwtq / 100hp Nitrous Shot starting at 3000 rpms - 948rwhp and 1044rwtq still on 93
2011 Vette Cam Only Internal Mod in stock LS3 -- YSI @ 18psi - 811rwhp on 93 / 926rwhp on E60 & 1008rwhp with a 50 shot of nitrous all through a 6L80
~Greg Huggins~
Remote Tuning Available at gh[email protected]
Mobile Tuning Available for North Georgia and WNC
I understand better than most how far off narrow bands can be if not dialed in correctly - think I'm the one that pointed that out in the wideband used against a narrow band to prove it's accurateness and how pointless that was... I just believe that if one had the O2's dialed in that there should in theory be a way to correlate a correction factor with it... Only MAIN problem as you've pointed out - are the O2's can be pretty bad off... This is why I use 2 rather accurate and nice wide bands to dial them in
Last edited by GHuggins; 09-19-2016 at 06:45 PM.
2010 Vette Stock Bottom LS3 - LS2 APS Twin Turbo Kit, Trick Flow Heads and Custom Cam - 12psi - 714rwhp and 820rwtq / 100hp Nitrous Shot starting at 3000 rpms - 948rwhp and 1044rwtq still on 93
2011 Vette Cam Only Internal Mod in stock LS3 -- YSI @ 18psi - 811rwhp on 93 / 926rwhp on E60 & 1008rwhp with a 50 shot of nitrous all through a 6L80
~Greg Huggins~
Remote Tuning Available at gh[email protected]
Mobile Tuning Available for North Georgia and WNC
I hate using my cell for this forum. I tried to fix the spelling mistake and it deleted the post. It was supposed to say narrow band.
Yes me too
Why can't spell check be smart or see between the lines?
2010 Vette Stock Bottom LS3 - LS2 APS Twin Turbo Kit, Trick Flow Heads and Custom Cam - 12psi - 714rwhp and 820rwtq / 100hp Nitrous Shot starting at 3000 rpms - 948rwhp and 1044rwtq still on 93
2011 Vette Cam Only Internal Mod in stock LS3 -- YSI @ 18psi - 811rwhp on 93 / 926rwhp on E60 & 1008rwhp with a 50 shot of nitrous all through a 6L80
~Greg Huggins~
Remote Tuning Available at gh[email protected]
Mobile Tuning Available for North Georgia and WNC
Do you guys generally use a wideband in each bank? I can see how it would be better obviously, or if there is a difference in my output from one bank to the other should I be fixing that first?
I dont want to get off topic but if there is a search criteria that I should be googling to sort that out feel free to drop that in here.
So you guys dont use fuel trims at all for tuning cars?
My bad now i see where ghuggins said he tunes the narrow bands with widebands
I use narrow bands and fuel trims for tuning all relevant closed loop operations after dialing in the O2's as good as I possibly can... Don't focus too much on making them perfect - within 1 or 2% is usually close enough...
Yes, you need wide bands in each bank - you might be surprised with what you discover... I use 3 wide bands typically when I tune big builds... Pull plugs and check individual cylinders fueling for front to rear bank issues... There are torque tables and even some O2 tables that you can change that will usually cause bank 2 to go extremely lean - anywhere from 1 point to 3 or 4 full points leaner than bank 1...
2010 Vette Stock Bottom LS3 - LS2 APS Twin Turbo Kit, Trick Flow Heads and Custom Cam - 12psi - 714rwhp and 820rwtq / 100hp Nitrous Shot starting at 3000 rpms - 948rwhp and 1044rwtq still on 93
2011 Vette Cam Only Internal Mod in stock LS3 -- YSI @ 18psi - 811rwhp on 93 / 926rwhp on E60 & 1008rwhp with a 50 shot of nitrous all through a 6L80
~Greg Huggins~
Remote Tuning Available at gh[email protected]
Mobile Tuning Available for North Georgia and WNC
Well i better fire up the credit card for another wideband. Going to have to explore this o2 sensor tuning.
I don't ever use a wideband in both banks. If my o2mV are running equivalent I'm good to go. If they aren't I fix the problem, then I'm good to go. If things get funky I'll switch my wideband to the other bank to get readings and compare them to another log.
What a great thread, i found this the other night just before i was going to bed and 2hrs later i finally called it quits haha.
Is there any particular one of the maths that has been listed a little more accurate than the rest for calculating the GMVE in 3.2?
I used one that JBZ listed for Cyl Air- [50041.223] * (273.15 + [50011.241]) * 1000/[50030.91] in my scanner and was lucky enough that i had been scanning the correct channels already for it and it is surprisingly close to my current VE table which is a work in progress (ran a previous log i had saved).
Everyone else can say what they want, BUT you need to be multiplying these formulas by a air fuel error... Here's why - your dynamic air isn't calculated correctly until both air models are right, pulse widths aren't correct until fueling is correct and any a/m injector table will throw it off... Just make sure you use a correction factor - this should get you within 2% your first pass...
2010 Vette Stock Bottom LS3 - LS2 APS Twin Turbo Kit, Trick Flow Heads and Custom Cam - 12psi - 714rwhp and 820rwtq / 100hp Nitrous Shot starting at 3000 rpms - 948rwhp and 1044rwtq still on 93
2011 Vette Cam Only Internal Mod in stock LS3 -- YSI @ 18psi - 811rwhp on 93 / 926rwhp on E60 & 1008rwhp with a 50 shot of nitrous all through a 6L80
~Greg Huggins~
Remote Tuning Available at gh[email protected]
Mobile Tuning Available for North Georgia and WNC
I spent several hours trying to find how to tell if my o2 sensors were properly calibrated or how to calibrate them and found nothing conclusive. I scanned my car this morning here it is. I know the ones mv goes so much faster than the other that its unreadable both are polling the same. I don't even know what Im looking for but once the car is out of the startup mode the wbo2 seems to stay around where its supposed to in CL.
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