New engine. Lots of issues. Idle,AFR,dying,blah blah blah. 2008 Vette Twin Turbo

[JekylHyde]

2008 vette M6 Twin 67 setup new 427 motor cam specs are : 258/266 lift 400/390 118 LSA also added flex fuel sensor and on 93 as of now instead of my usual E85 New O2s and NGK [email protected]. Car started out flooding plugs. Only start with Flood clear mode(100% TPS disables injectors) car will start and run for like 20 sec-1 minute then die. The idle is crazy low. AFR goes crazy high. O2 B1 dead? O2 bank 2 rich? AFR commanded....I have no idea what is going on why its commanding so rich. Prob more but lets start there. Thanks in advance for help. I added 25% more fuel to all 3 VE tables and it did nothing.



died.hplafterdiedbacktotune.hplDerrick TT tune FFcranking VE and AF minimum O2MV FA Mult crank.hpt

[jsllc]

No one will be of help if there is not complete build info given. You have changed too many things to know what is valid an not with only 10% of the information. For example you say it is a 427 but your ECM thinks it is a 376. Glad to help but need all of the info. Who did this and do you have a STOCK tune save for this ECM?

[JekylHyde]

Its always been a 427 nothing with engine size has changed in tune...I guess I have been driving around fine for 4 years with wrong engine size within the tune lol. Went from 427 ERL with PRC 285 CC heads with stock rockers and triple AEM 1200s to 427 LME with above cam and MAST 305 heads with crower shaft staggered rocker setup and triple 465s. Same FIC 2150CC injectors for last 4 years.

[jsllc]

Has to be more to it than this. What fuel mods? according to tune that has changed as well. Map sensor is not GM, IAT sensor has changed. More than what you said. This ECM came out of a 6.2L. This thing needs lots of help. Need a log with all of the channels in the file I attached. There will be some that do not apply as these are for an e67. Need the WB in lambda. And really need all of the changes.

Fuel system Mods?
Fuel Pressure your return is running at?
CR ratio?
Expected boost?
MAP sensor?
IAT sensor?
MAF location has it changed?
MAF is it LS2 style or blade LS3 style?
Intake mods?
TB mods?
Headers?


If it does not have an airflow straightener before the MAF do yourself a favor and spend the $50 buy one and install it. If your think you want to run SD only, okay but not as good. Car cannot fuel soak the plugs and run at 16-18AFR so WB has to be wrong. You got help me so I can help you.

[jsllc]

This one should work with your e38

[fresnosmooth]

I'm green, so this is from a newbie, but I looked at your log (couldn't open your tune) and ...
Your map sensor is reading kind of high for idle (in my opinion)
Your wideband seems like it's got a grounding issue (it is reading the same AFR as when the car wasn't running)
The wideband registereed for like a second or two when you started, but then was around 18 again .. only blipped down a couple times for a fraction of a second.
I think your MAP sensor is broken, and your wideband probably isn't giving you correct readings to make matters even worse.
*** again ... newbie here, so just a disclaimer/warning***

[fresnosmooth]

I should probably add that I understand it's cammed up pretty good, and I couldn't even venture a guess as what kind of pressure it should be ... but I didn't think it was that much

[JekylHyde]

Yes Fresno I agree the MAP was a big concern. Old setup was at 52 at idle. Its a ZR1 MAP. I guess Ill scoop a new one. I wonder if this O2 sensor is bad out the box on B1 it just sits around 450. Gonna put the old one in and see what it reads on that bank. I'm gonna take another look at the WB as it is maybe 4 months old. AEM 4110 is supposed to calibrate itself. Connector looks good but who knows. Before putting engine back in I inspected every thing on wiring harness but anything could of happened. I put new O rings on the wilson billet bank intake and they were direct replacement from Wilson for intake. Seems to be a leak maybe behind TB causing issues maybe? IAT is a GM 2 wire. ECM is stock LS3 E38 car hasn't had a stock motor in it since 2012. -10 feed -8 return on fuel and its a parallel setup. Pressure is 43 at regulator on return. SD no MAF and 10:0 CR. Ported stock 90. Stock manifolds.

[JekylHyde]

Ill load these up and run it

[jsllc]

Okay, so GM runs everything as 4BAR Much of what you have in the system is 4BAR set but you have fuel flow at 3BAR. Your ECM MAXs flow at 63.5 lbs/hr. Yet your injectors are much larger. You have not scaled the tune. All ofthis will result in a car that does not run. Do you have injector data?

This tune needs to be rebuilt from ground up with accurate injector data and then scaled for those MONSTER injectors. I have cars turning 1100HP with ID1050x or FIC 1000s, know of cars running e85 with 1300s and turning 1200HP. Any reason you went so big?

What IAT senor are you running Part#?

[JekylHyde]

I made 1280@23lbs my car has seen 30lbs on street. You say the tune needs to be rebuilt from the ground up yet for 4 years it ran great and made great power along with great drivability. Instead of rewriting the book and questioning everything here lets concentrate on why its running like crap with the changes made....you can't say a tune that worked for years is the problem if it worked. Minor changes need to be addressed to get it happy again. There are many ways to tune as long as you get to the end result and it works. Right now something isn't happy and trying to see what. These are injectors that Carlyle sold to me from his old setup which have once again worked flawlessly for years and are all data matched and flow-tested. The data is from what he provided along with FIC (fuel injector clinic). Its a scaled tune...

[JekylHyde]

Figured out my WB issue so we are good there. It is tad rich so gonna pull more fueling out. Still having Idle issue along with high MAP. Flooding issue is still there on cranking. Let it sit and she starts right up or bypass injectors and starts right up.

[jsllc]

So you are shooting the messenger. Here is what you said you have:

Car started out flooding plugs.
Only start with Flood clear mode(100% TPS disables injectors) car will start and run for like 20 sec-1 minute then die.
The idle is crazy low.
AFR goes crazy high.
O2 B1 dead?
O2 bank 2 rich?
AFR commanded....I have no idea what is going on why its commanding so rich.

So as none of us can see this, feel this or know the car history there is no way to know what is going on. Nor could we know this had run for 4 years. Bad info in bad info out.

You say it runs too rich and fouls plugs but runs to lean according to WB.
MAP sensor says 12kpa vacuum which matches the to lean WB but not the plug foul
You are telling your ecm your cranking fuel pressure is 17-26psi and your rail pressure is 58 psi yet your running 43
You are telling your ecm each cyl is 47.2934 cu in 6.2L when in fact a stock 7L is 53.3958 cu in
You are telling your ecm your injectors flow 63.5 lbs/hr when they are about 206 lbs/hr best guess as I do not have that data
This tune is not stoic scaled and has wrong displacement and we have no accurate injector data so no way to do the math on what air might be for startup and idle as we are missing all of the stock modifiers that would tell us.
One O2 sensor says rich the other lean. WB says lean are the WB And the lean O2 on the same side?
There are other items that may not be correct as well but do not know until see the part#.

If it ran before and does not now and the tune did not change then it is mechanical. You also have to understand that if it was tuned for e85 then you add a flex fuel sensor it may change it all. As we do not have a before and after tune I cannot tell how it was done for e85 before. If they just told it no ethanol and tuned it and now you add the sensor stoic, timing, PE and many others will get modified even further.

Hence start from scratch. Or not but you will find by the time you are done trying to fix everything you will have spent as much time as starting from beginning and fixing it all.

[JekylHyde]

Cool story. When you're done making yourself feel validated then that would be great.

[LaTechGTO]

Cool story. When you're done making yourself feel validated then that would be great.

Why the hostility? Let's recap...

You came here asking for help with very limited information.
You've received quite a bit of FREE help and insight.
You aren't happy with the proposed solution.

I'm confused because jsllc has been quite direct and factual with his, again, FREE advice. He didn't try to lead you down some rabbit trail of solving riddles in an attempt to make this harder on you to arrive at a solution. After all of this, yet somehow you are still not willing to help him help you. What gives?

[JekylHyde]

What gives is there are quite a few things that he is asking that were already mentioned yet he continues down the same path. I'm not going to get into a dumbass arguing session. Nothing says I need to listen to the first guy who offers help. I don't care about your little tuner tag on here. He says the max of my injectors are set @ 63 well yessss that is the limit of the E38.....Then he says its not scaled...the tune ran for 4 years on this setting so its quite obvious it is scaled to the point he can't recognize it in the tune. How else did the car run with 205lb injectors? He tells me to go MAF and SD and get an airflow straightener....Asked me multiple times what the fuel system is when it was already mentioned. Lets not even get into the debate of the Volume of the cylinders..Tells me my injectors are to big and his credentials on smaller injectors. Tells me my IAT and MAP are not GM. What I'm trying to get at is instead of questioning the setup that has worked for years lets just work on getting back to where its happy. I already know these injectors are harder to tune I have dealt with them for awhile but when they are dialed in they are money. 60% IDC@30psi is why I kept them. I don't care what you say about ID1300s making that power I'm making more than 1200hp and don't want 90%IDC. Then he discussed the Lean issue again when I had said I fixed that issue. The O2 I got was defective out the box not the first this has happened. For some reason he keeps talking about the fouling plugs not matching the lean condition when I have said multiple times the fouling was on the cranking only hence it starting in deflood mode....That has been fixed with less pressure on the cranking. Starts right up now. It doesn't like the open loop idle I'm assuming due to the different cam. I still haven't figured out the high MAP reading. It shows 96 with car off which is atmosphere and normal but when car is on it only drops to 80s. Leak somewhere after TB? I have checked and not finding any. There you go now we can move on.

[LaTechGTO]

What gives is there are quite a few things that he is asking that were already mentioned yet he continues down the same path. I'm not going to get into a dumbass arguing session. Nothing says I need to listen to the first guy who offers help. I don't care about your little tuner tag on here. He says the max of my injectors are set @ 63 well yessss that is the limit of the E38.....Then he says its not scaled...the tune ran for 4 years on this setting so its quite obvious it is scaled to the point he can't recognize it in the tune. How else did the car run with 205lb injectors? He tells me to go MAF and SD and get an airflow straightener....Asked me multiple times what the fuel system is when it was already mentioned. Lets not even get into the debate of the Volume of the cylinders..Tells me my injectors are to big and his credentials on smaller injectors. Tells me my IAT and MAP are not GM. What I'm trying to get at is instead of questioning the setup that has worked for years lets just work on getting back to where its happy. I already know these injectors are harder to tune I have dealt with them for awhile but when they are dialed in they are money. 60% IDC@30psi is why I kept them. I don't care what you say about ID1300s making that power I'm making more than 1200hp and don't want 90%IDC. Then he discussed the Lean issue again when I had said I fixed that issue. The O2 I got was defective out the box not the first this has happened. For some reason he keeps talking about the fouling plugs not matching the lean condition when I have said multiple times the fouling was on the cranking only hence it starting in deflood mode....That has been fixed with less pressure on the cranking. Starts right up now. It doesn't like the open loop idle I'm assuming due to the different cam. I still haven't figured out the high MAP reading. It shows 96 with car off which is atmosphere and normal but when car is on it only drops to 80s. Leak somewhere after TB? I have checked and not finding any. There you go now we can move on.

Edit: Never mind. Good luck.

[JekylHyde]

Latest scan and update. Both O2s working now but still battling the idle jump around. It does have a big jump with spark and then drop. MAP sensor still is pretty high at idle. I have gone through everything behind TB and no issues seen as far as leak. I even changed the O rings on the injectors again. I was told to not worry about commanded and have read some articles on this being an issue. Seems this is why we would have error within the STFT when they come on in the scan. +-5 is no big deal I know but is there a way to correct that commanded?


FixedO2.hpl

[5FDP]

I can't view the tune but the MAP sensor settings are 312.50 and -11.25 right?

[JekylHyde]

I keep forgetting I have the beta and only people with beta can look at the tune. Yes those setting are the same. Does estimated max and min matter?