2015 Mustang GT Tuning Twin Turbo (Speed Density?)

[imrex613]

Hey all just wondering if anyone can look at my tune file and give me some advice. Right now the issue I'm having is I cant get the car under 13.5 AFR during boost. I have double and tripled checked everything and can not figure out why this may be I'm hoping someone here can see something simple I forgot to change and fix this. I have not done any full throttle pulls because I don't feel safe running my boosted car at this AFR, it sometimes goes leaner than that.

Also, on a side note two other issues I'm having is when I update the numbers on the Speed Density Calculator it always ask me to Calculate Coefficients. Once done the numbers almost always revert BACK to what they were and sometimes a full column of 0's will appear. Can anyone enlighten me what I am doing wrong here? The other issue is when I disable Mapped Points 1-14 the car will start but not run or idle, I have NO throttle. I thought it had to do with my Distance Tables but even after changing the values it all leads to the same result. Can anyone also help me with these issues?

The setup is precision 6266 turbos on 8psi, DW 78lbs injectors, MAF inside 4 inch IC pipe and DW Fuel pump, Thanks!

TuneCurrentVEChangesVEUPUPUP.hpt

[MRRPMBRP]

Post a log too

[imrex613]

This is the only recent log I have I can make another if needed.

Testing1234567.hpl

[veeefour]

You are not entering PE because you are not meeting the conditions for entering PE which you set. Highest rpm you hit was like 3500 for that you need 85% of pedal input.

Work on your fuel trims,start with switching off your LTFT - it's not helping you with 12% long term corrections. Your MAF curve looks stock - this needs attention before you even start your engine.

[imrex613]

You are not entering PE because you are not meeting the conditions for entering PE which you set. Highest rpm you hit was like 3500 for that you need 85% of pedal input.

Work on your fuel trims,start with switching off your LTFT - it's not helping you with 12% long term corrections. Your MAF curve looks stock - this needs attention before you even start your engine.

Thanks for noticing my PE numbers I thought I had lowered it below 85% but I was wrong, that will be the first thing I test tomorrow. When you said my MAF curve looks stock are you referring to the MAF Airflow vs Period? If so that has been modified for my current application see the screen shots below for before and after. Before changing this the car wouldn't even run.

Before.png After.jpg

I will also switch of the LTFT and dial the numbers closer that way. Any advice as to why my car doesn't run when I disable mapped points 0-13? Thanks in advance

[Thatwhite5.0]

Make a histogram with Maf Period on the row axis and STFT + LTFT in the cells. Add the factory widebands to your channel list. You're running lean and need to add more fuel especially lower airflow areas.

You car doesn't run with 0-13 disabled because you can't disable them only, you have to re-assign all your mapped points for Fuel Economy, Optimal Stability, etc. You disabled 0-13, but the tune is still request for 0-13.

[veeefour]

Thanks for noticing my PE numbers I thought I had lowered it below 85% but I was wrong, that will be the first thing I test tomorrow. When you said my MAF curve looks stock are you referring to the MAF Airflow vs Period? If so that has been modified for my current application see the screen shots below for before and after. Before changing this the car wouldn't even run.
I will also switch of the LTFT and dial the numbers closer that way. Any advice as to why my car doesn't run when I disable mapped points 0-13? Thanks in advance

That is not enough for 4 inch pipe - still miles away. Do a simple cross section math and multiply your stock curve accordingly.


Yes, your IMRC is still looking for those MP's - and they are not there.

[imrex613]

Make a histogram with Maf Period on the row axis and STFT + LTFT in the cells. Add the factory widebands to your channel list. You're running lean and need to add more fuel especially lower airflow areas.

You car doesn't run with 0-13 disabled because you can't disable them only, you have to re-assign all your mapped points for Fuel Economy, Optimal Stability, etc. You disabled 0-13, but the tune is still request for 0-13.

Gotcha, thanks man I looked right past that!

That is not enough for 4 inch pipe - still miles away. Do a simple cross section math and multiply your stock curve accordingly.


Yes, your IMRC is still looking for those MP's - and they are not there.

I did the calculation of (pi)(R^2) for my new intake diameter which was

(3.14159265359)(50^2) = 7854.00

I then took the stock calculation of
(pi)(43^2) = 5808.81

7854.0/ 5808.8 = 1.35

I then multiplied the stock numbers by 1.35 to come up with those. If that math is incorrect please let me know I got the numbers from doing research here on this forum.

[veeefour]

Gotcha, thanks man I looked right past that!

I did the calculation of (pi)(R^2) for my new intake diameter which was

(3.14159265359)(50^2) = 7854.00

I then took the stock calculation of
(pi)(43^2) = 5808.81

7854.0/ 5808.8 = 1.35

I then multiplied the stock numbers by 1.35 to come up with those. If that math is incorrect please let me know I got the numbers from doing research here on this forum.

Correct and wrong at the same time - it's OK until your bring boost into equation then you need to worry about blow-through. As you can see you still have some work to do.

maf.jpg

[imrex613]

Correct and wrong at the same time - it's OK until your bring boost into equation then you need to worry about blow-through. As you can see you still have some work to do.

maf.jpg

Can you tell me what needs to be changed or what formula I should use?

[Thatwhite5.0]

There is no special formula needed.

https://forum.hptuners.com/showthrea...ote-MAF-tuning

[imrex613]

There is no special formula needed.

https://forum.hptuners.com/showthrea...ote-MAF-tuning

Gotcha, jeez it's tough work to get this right haha.

Would anyone mind taking a look at these 2 logs and giving me some feedback. I left LTFT on to make sure I didn't burn anything up while making changes and clearly need some work there due to the massive amounts of correction but just wanted a more experienced set of eyes to look over everything I have so far, thanks.

FuelTuning.hplFuelTuning2.hpl

[veeefour]

Now it's even worse:
maf.jpg

[murfie]

Fueltuning log, maf looks good, Some long term trims bleeding into the lower air flows from decel areas no going in to fuel cut off, and maybe add 5% from 150u and up.
Fueltuning 2 log, did you go back to the stock transfer? not good at all.
Before any of that try the data in the 2011+ tab of DW sheet for the 78lb injectors, not the 39PSI stock data tab. It should help make things make more sense, and work better. probably help a lot with the low load fueling problem. Attached the XLS.

You asked about speed density, but the only thing you are logging that gives a slight clue about what the SD is doing is throttle angle error.
you are going to need to log a MAP sensor, or atleast calculated MAP.
If you are only going to run 8PSI you should scale the SD using calc. MAP max. Set it to 25psi( ~10psi boost) and it will give you much better resolution to adjust the coefficients with. Then you are going to want to raise the delta above BP, 4.91 is too low for running 8 psi. You are going to really want to focus around 13-15psi at all RPMs of the MP you see at partial throttle, this is where your TB model is going into boost. you can already see the throttle angle error in this area in your logs. If the SD is not smooth it can cause throttle oscillations from going between the delta above BP table and the TB model for increasing the effective area. You can lower the calc. map max to smooth that area using the SD calculator, just don't forget to raise it back up when finished. modifying The ETC vacuum axis can also help with smoothing this transition, the populating values of the model usually do it by going static in the smaller vacuum value areas. Setting it to only go so lower for ETC vacuum will make it only use the model when air is moving at a quick velocity/ a smaller throttle opening. You will probably find that you will still need to smooth a lower section in the SD to avoid a lower partial pedal oscillation. The other thing that can help this is the learned Baro pressure. Reducing the variability in this makes the part of the SD needing to be smoothed smaller, then you can raise this up/down to trick the transition off the tb model to happen slightly into boost, where your bypass closes, etc.

Then if you want it to go into power enrichment sooner, lower your fuel enrichment pedal table for all RPMs not just higher RPMs. This should get your wide band lower than the 13.5 you are seeing when at low RPMs and partial throttle.

Format Ford - 18U-78.xls

[imrex613]

As much as I want to finish tuning this myself I might have reached the point where it's better to just pay someone. I was doing ok up until this point but am completely lost with the MAF part here. I've tried reading everything and just can't get a grasp on it.

With that being said can anyone recommend a tuner to either finish what I have or write me am entire new custom tune? Thanks

[veeefour]

There are few guys here that can hook you up with a good TT tune including me.

[imrex613]

I decided to give this another try and think it finally is starting to make sense due to reading, reading and reading some more. Murfie was right my injector data was not entered correctly, I used the wrong excel sheet. After changing that data the car is actually pulling fuel instead of trying to add now. I went for a short cruise and data logged and these were my results for my MAF at the picture link below.



https://ibb.co/7R4kcPY

This is the formula of (LTFT+STFT)/2. Now I copied these numbers over directly with the paste special add function. After doing so the car will start but not idle. I believe this is because it is to large of a change it seems my changes should be in the .xx range but I can not seem to get them that low. Should I be dividing these by 100 after the calculation before transferring? I have also included the two logs from today thanks in advance to everyone.

91419WorkCruiseHome.hpl
91419WorkCruiseHome2.hpl
ltftvsstft.png

[murfie]

fuel trims are a percentage. Use the paste special multiply by % or the multiply by %- half. You will have the error down to less than 2% in a log or two.

From that picture, I would just multiply the entire MAF transfer by .95 and log again. Then just use LTFT+STFT, not divided by 2.

The ratioing the MAF tube and correct injector data will get you very close as a base to start with.

[imrex613]

Thank you sir I finally got this thing dialed in with 2% or less throughout. Thanks everyone!

fuel trims are a percentage. Use the paste special multiply by % or the multiply by %- half. You will have the error down to less than 2% in a log or two.

From that picture, I would just multiply the entire MAF transfer by .95 and log again. Then just use LTFT+STFT, not divided by 2.

The ratioing the MAF tube and correct injector data will get you very close as a base to start with.

[metroplex]

So what was the fix for getting all 0's in the speed density calculator?