Soler 107mm TB idle tuning

[TriPinTaZ]

Anyone tune one of these things yet? I actually have 3 customers that all bought one and needed a re-tune. When replacing a ported 95mm TB or a 103mm the timing goes into the negatives which I have seen before so I started using the normal changes to correct. However, these things didn't respond at all. I have one car with extreme VT changes to get it to idle in the positive(A10 car) but cold start is still trash. Then I have another car with very similar mods where nothing I do will get it to idle in the positive(M6 car). I haven't even started on the third car yet. I thought we were past the days of dealing with negative idle.

Cars are all ZL1's and have full tilt porting and pullied to about 17-18 PSI, meth, headers, big gulp etc. I hate to even post this thread but I've literally tried everything. Just looking to see if anyone has had their hands on one of these before and had to deal with the negative timing. I'm starting to wonder if there is an issue with the TB itself or a major vacuum leak but we haven't found one.

I haven't been this frustrated tuning cars in quite some time. I'm ready to tell the owners to send them back and return to the 103 or ported 95.

[AdrenalineJunkie]

I am running one on a c706 and it idles fine with the same tune as the 87 mm throttle body. Car has a stock cam, ported blower, pulley and other minor bolt tons

[Frost]

I can't find my notes on the car but... I had to ditch one a year or so ago for much of what you describe. In the end, another no-name (slightly smaller) TB went on and had none of the same issues. That's how I remember the brand's name though.

[Ghostnotes]

Was a big topic a few years ago on the corvette forum when they were in development. At the time we tried to tell him (me, higgs and a few others) that you would have to tune it all over again when you install these according to his design. His claim to fame was eliminating the dead spot/throttle lag we were prone to.

[TriPinTaZ]

What is blowing my mind is that I have two of the same cars with similar mods and the 107. One car responded to my changes and is idling in the positive. The other car, which prompted me to post this, wont even budge. I'm going to try some more radical changes that are typically reserved for cammed cars to see if I can get it to budge. I haven't given up quite yet but once I try this next round of changes, if nothing changes, I will tell my customers I won't tune their cars with the 107. Honestly the 103 vs the 107 I doubt there is much difference at the track unless you have a 2650 blower. The ONLY reason that we went 107 on the first car is that my customer hated that he lost the "BRAP" on downshifts with the 103mm. Kind of funny but I get it. I wouldn't be happy if I lost the BRAP either. Although I still think with more time I could have fixed the BRAP on the 103.

[TriPinTaZ]

Is the snout port matched to a 103/107? Or are you using an adaptor plate?

[TriPinTaZ]

Was a big topic a few years ago on the corvette forum when they were in development. At the time we tried to tell him (me, higgs and a few others) that you would have to tune it all over again when you install these according to his design. His claim to fame was eliminating the dead spot/throttle lag we were prone to.

I was one of the guys over there telling him the same thing. My name on that site isn't the same on here. I'm actually in contact with Mike on this and he is trying to be helpful. But unless there is some magical setting, I just don't know if it is worth the trouble yet. Time will tell very shortly.

[AdrenalineJunkie]

Is the snout port matched to a 103/107? Or are you using an adaptor plate?

Not sure who you are asking, but my snout is port matched. Running stock lt4 ported blower.

The Soler 107 throttle body is new, so must not have been that brand people were having trouble with in the past.

[TriPinTaZ]

Not sure who you are asking, but my snout is port matched. Running stock lt4 ported blower.

The Soler 107 throttle body is new, so must not have been that brand people were having trouble with in the past.

Yes thank you. The Soler 107 is basically a ported 103 and it is a 107mm effective as the throttle blade bar has been trimmed down. The back side of the Soler 107 TB measures 103mm.

[sevinn]

I have one in a box on my shelf here waiting for my car to go back together. Hopefully a non issue but I'll be curious to see how this turns out.

I did have a nw103 give me hell on a 2020 car recently for no reason. Sometimes they just aren't happy it seems.

[cadillactech]

Are the Soler's hand ported or is this a CNC operation?

[TriPinTaZ]

Are the Soler's hand ported or is this a CNC operation?

I'm not entirely sure. It does look like there is some CNC work to make the TB, but the flow area is smooth so I'm sure it had to be finished after the CNC work. Basically from what I can tell this is a 103mm TB that has been ported and worked to be "107mm effective". No idea if it was copied, original design or patented at all.

[sevinn]

Here's the sales ad

https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...ttle-body.html

[smokeshow]

According to the Corvette forum post, what you need to do is go back to bone stock settings and it'll be fine lol. Kind of hard to believe, but anything is possible... I'd be verifying that it can physically do what you ask of it. Does a reduction in desired throttle area have an effect? Lower flow, higher pressure ratio?

[cadillactech]

Seems like a reach that these will work with stock settings.

I wonder if your variation in being able to calibrate them has to do with build variation. Disassembly and reassembly of throttles requires lots of care, so you could have a few that got bumped around too much and don't play nice.

[TriPinTaZ]

According to the Corvette forum post, what you need to do is go back to bone stock settings and it'll be fine lol. Kind of hard to believe, but anything is possible... I'd be verifying that it can physically do what you ask of it. Does a reduction in desired throttle area have an effect? Lower flow, higher pressure ratio?

lol I can assure you, stock tuning will NOT work. Heck, even modified tuning isn't working with any consistency. I'm waiting on the guys to be ready for tuning round two to see if I can't get this thing working properly on car #2.

If you're referring to throttle area scaler, so far I can say increasing it a bit was helpful on the first car I tuned, but certainly didn't bring it out of negative timing. On the second car I've moved the throttle scaler from stock (4470) up to 5400ish with no noticeable improvement. It mostly just affects the rev match aggressiveness. I almost never change the scaler anyhow so I didn't expect it to make any difference. So far no matter what I've done, predicted torque is too high at idle and timing is in the gutter.

Seems like a reach that these will work with stock settings.

I wonder if your variation in being able to calibrate them has to do with build variation. Disassembly and reassembly of throttles requires lots of care, so you could have a few that got bumped around too much and don't play nice.

I've wondered the same thing. On car #2 the owner had to send the first throttle body back because we kept chasing throttle body performance codes, but only on throttle stabs or on revs. Turns out the throttle blade was scraping on the wall but only from the "rest" position to the fully closed position. This area is never usually seen except for when you're on the throttle hard and then let off and the TB has to close all most 100%. Is my inability to get this thing working my lack of skillset? or the TB itself?

[cadillactech]

lol I can assure you, stock tuning will NOT work. Heck, even modified tuning isn't working with any consistency. I'm waiting on the guys to be ready for tuning round two to see if I can't get this thing working properly on car #2.

If you're referring to throttle area scaler, so far I can say increasing it a bit was helpful on the first car I tuned, but certainly didn't bring it out of negative timing. On the second car I've moved the throttle scaler from stock (4470) up to 5400ish with no noticeable improvement. It mostly just affects the rev match aggressiveness. I almost never change the scaler anyhow so I didn't expect it to make any difference. So far no matter what I've done, predicted torque is too high at idle and timing is in the gutter.






I've wondered the same thing. On car #2 the owner had to send the first throttle body back because we kept chasing throttle body performance codes, but only on throttle stabs or on revs. Turns out the throttle blade was scraping on the wall but only from the "rest" position to the fully closed position. This area is never usually seen except for when you're on the throttle hard and then let off and the TB has to close all most 100%. Is my inability to get this thing working my lack of skillset? or the TB itself?

I think build variation may be more of a problem than we think on things like these. Scraping on the side of the bore from full open sounds like a side to side thrust issue which could be from disassembly, reassembly or any of the modification work.

I highly doubt any of these smaller companies have a OEM level manufacturing setups so it doesn't surprise me that some work great and other have issues due to small variations but I could be wrong about Soler.

Doubt this is your skillset! I would hope the Soler would do an exchange to keep the customer happy and see if it really was a TB issue or a tune issue.

What about ECM table 33462? I know it is set to 0 from the factory but HPs note about setting 20-40kPA for better responsiveness is curious, maybe this table would help?

[TriPinTaZ]

I think build variation may be more of a problem than we think on things like these. Scraping on the side of the bore from full open sounds like a side to side thrust issue which could be from disassembly, reassembly or any of the modification work.

I highly doubt any of these smaller companies have a OEM level manufacturing setups so it doesn't surprise me that some work great and other have issues due to small variations but I could be wrong about Soler.

Doubt this is your skillset! I would hope the Soler would do an exchange to keep the customer happy and see if it really was a TB issue or a tune issue.

What about ECM table 33462? I know it is set to 0 from the factory but HPs note about setting 20-40kPA for better responsiveness is curious, maybe this table would help?

Soler did replace that TB with another unit. Neither would idle in the positive. So I guess technically car #2 is on the second TB.

I haven't tried messing with that table. It is not really ever changed on the LT1/LT4 stuff but I have seen in on the Turbo V6 cars. I don't think it would make any difference TBH.

[smokeshow]

lol I can assure you, stock tuning will NOT work. Heck, even modified tuning isn't working with any consistency. I'm waiting on the guys to be ready for tuning round two to see if I can't get this thing working properly on car #2.

If you're referring to throttle area scaler, so far I can say increasing it a bit was helpful on the first car I tuned, but certainly didn't bring it out of negative timing. On the second car I've moved the throttle scaler from stock (4470) up to 5400ish with no noticeable improvement. It mostly just affects the rev match aggressiveness. I almost never change the scaler anyhow so I didn't expect it to make any difference. So far no matter what I've done, predicted torque is too high at idle and timing is in the gutter.

I hope the sarcasm was noted The post from Soler looks like a lot of hype. If they found that it behaves like stock and runs smoothly on a stock cal, I might question what standards that is evaluated to before believing the claim.

[BDPhoto519]

I am having the same negative timing issues with my Katech 103mm. Oddly enough over the past few days the timing seems to be slowly creeping back at idle on its own.

It was idling at +1 or +2 at first now its worked its way up to around +10/+12.

Kind of strange. VTT changes had zero effect on it as well.