NEED HELP!!! After tinkering with torque tables the car was running perfect for the night by the next day I?m in limp mode with codes p061a p061b
NEED HELP!!! After tinkering with torque tables the car was running perfect for the night by the next day I?m in limp mode with codes p061a p061b
post your tune
I'm surprised it worked at all. Your Optimum Engine Torque #'s wouldn't on mine. If I raise the Optimum above ~83 it'll shut down. Not limp mode, but pull over right now, you're done.
So I suggest you revert to oem #'s on Optimum or maybe only go as high as 83? I discovered the hard way that I could bump Optimum to 83 on the 180% line and bump the 160% line a bit to blend, but if I bumped the lower % lines it would shut down much easier. The lower % line I went the easier it died, so much so that when I tweaked the 5% line it shut down almost right away.
I am currently experimenting with altering the Optimum Monitoring because I'm pretty sure the problem is the Optimum needs to match Opt Monitoring and that mismatch kills it. I just did that last night to see what would happen today and so far so good. Not a great test because all I did was bump Monitoring to match my 83#. Be wary, you can't just copy/paste chart to chart because the % values are different. So I had to estimate what 150% would be on the Optimum chart and plug those estimated #'s into Opt Monitoring. Make sense?
Since it didn't shut down today I will eventually bump them up more but I'm focusing more on my boost now which moves around too much and it's driving me nuts. Speaking of boost, your max boost settings are waaay too high. I have mine at 34-36 at most, which is plenty. Not sure if those settings actually limit boost, or maybe do nothing at all, but no point in having it so high it'll rip your intercooler apart. I don't know what the actual safe limit is but I try not to break 34psia. When the intercooler rips apart that water goes into the intake. Odds are it'll suck it down no problem, but all it takes is for one cyl to suck too much on one stroke and you bend a rod. I think the odds are slim, but at minimum you'd have to get & install another intercooler.
Since your Optimum #'s already kinda worked for you, maybe try bumping the Monitoring to match and see what happens? If you do, let me know what it does.
Fyi when I get a shutdown from that it's almost always ~2k, light throttle with some boost. Like cruising in 7th gear and I give ~1/4 throttle but not enough that it downshifts, and boom! I also believe it needs to see that mismatch on the charts for one full second, and apparently at one rpm because it seems that if you change rpms quickly it won't trigger. So same scenario I mentioned but it downshifts, then it doesn't happen. So I too might drive for a day or more and it seems fine, then one low rpm/high tq moment and boom. This is, imo, why messing with the lower % values on the Optimum chart are bad because if those are off then you don't need to be at high torque to trigger it. Hopefully matching the Monitoring chart is the fix, time will tell...
Your Airflow/General/Max Desired Load chart has what I assume are oem #'s in it? This chart crewed me because I bumped the #'s by 50% to get them up and out of the way, but it was still holding me back which took me weeks to figure out. So I bumped by 90%, still a problem. I then set them all to 300 and problem solved, I hope, so now it's 400 just to be sure. Stupid chart...
You should richen up your fuel too. It's still oem and the more boost you make the more you need it. I had a lot of timing retard happening from that, which is from being too hot. I use the Temperature Control to richen, not Power Enrichment. The reason is Power Enrich was dumping fuel in all the time! I had it set it only >3500 & 90% but it was dumpin fuel all the time except when coasting. Maybe it's just me, but if I used your #'s I'd be ~.82 lambda all the time. So temp control is what I use, plus it's a much better chart. I do still have some Power Enrich in there, just in case, but it's at even higher rpm where it doesn't cause problems.
If you change your Spark/Advance/Catalyst Heating to all zeros, the car wasn't be obnoxiously loud when it's cold. That and I lowered my cold idle a bit and the Airflow/Elect Throttle/Startup / Cranking #'s. I reduced those by about half or more.
Also, I think the file you posted might be corrupt or something? Certain places have one or more red X's like the pix below. If I click on the one good item (1.Var 0) my program locks up. So I can't see that or some other stuff of yours. I also can't load my tune with yours to compare them, also locks up.
Attachment 120156
Rather than explain all I did, here's the tune I plan on testing tomorrow. Like always, I'm sure this one will be the one, but so far no, always need more tweaking. Note how much timing I've had to retard, despite the much richer fuel mix. I get having to pull timing up top since I'm making more boost, but the mid range baffles me. Maybe because I buy my gas at 7-11.
Also remember my car has issues so when it comes to power settings, like Torque to Load and stuff, my #'s may be too much. I don't have a normal car to compare it to, I only know that normal settings don't work for me. Like your tune wouldn't do squat for me. Also note my turbo settings, which for me are a must have. When I set the Duty Cycle to 50% min it was a huge help, but it was still trying to control between 0 & 100, so I'm trying to force it to only control 50-82%. While I may not have it perfect, it's way better than it was.
There is a Manual Control option for the turbo, which didn't work at all for me. So if you try it let me know what happens.
And if you could, please post a good Scanner run or two because I want to see how it compares to mine, especially floored from a stop. Hopefully you also record turbo Duty Cycle?
19x Turbo.hpt
'16 E550 Coupe RWD - C207.373 / M278.922 / MED17.7.3 / 722.909
If the HPT content is the same as the M157 I`m looking at we only have access to a tiny number of the maps. You effectively have 2 sets of the same maps for torque to load and the optimum torque maps. One is the request and one is the actual, the actual being the inverse of the request. This is why just changing one of them royally screws the torque model and everything that goes with it!Originally Posted by chevota
So if we had both torque / load tables you would change the torque to load map and then invert this map and put those values into the load to torque map (which we don't have!).....
Ok, check this out. The Optimum Torque Monitoring didn't shut down on me, as mentioned, but I didn't get a chance to really lean on it, I just did the low rpm/high torque checks that trigger it. Later, I also noticed the boost seemed a bit low but I rarely get to floor it so unsure. What really caught my eye was the boost duty cycle was much lower. It usually sits, while cruising, at 82% which is my max, but now it preferred to hover ~50-54 (50 is my min). So on the way to work today I verified the boost is in fact low, by ~6psi.
So before I left work I changed the Optimum Monitoring #'s back to oem which are ~74. No other changes. Duty Cycle was back to 82 and boost psi along with power also back.
I also saw my power, per the torque PID, was higher when I had Opt Monitoring at 83, despite actually making less power.
So I assume the Opt Monitoring is used in the math that calcs your power reading and possibly its only function in life? Who knows. The car apparently uses that same PID value to control actual power output, so thinking it was making more power thanks to the new #'s, it apparently pulled boost/power to compensate.
Fyi; the same thing is apparently the root of my low power issue that has been a monkey on my back for two years now. If I put the oem tune in it makes almost exactly 400hp and 445ftlbs, per the PID. Doing exactly what it's supposed to do, but it's not actually making that much, it only thinks it is, just like my Opt Monitoring change did.
Regarding the Optimum Torque #'s, I can't say I see a difference between the oem 74 and the 83 I usually have it at. Since you had it at 90 something, did you notice anything?
Based on what happened today it would seem that lowering Opt Monitoring #'s would lower the power reading which would cause it to generate more actual power to compensate? I guess I'll just have to try it and find out. I also wonder how much I can lower it before I get shutdowns, and will I need to lower Optimum to match or does it matter?
Sure wish I had a dyno or some open cop free road where I could test change after change. As-is I can usually only test 3-4 changes a week, unless I take chances, but the highway patrol is out in full force. I've seen more of them in the last two weeks than I have the last two years. They vanished at the start of Covid, for whatever reason, but making up for it now and have people pulled over left n right. A shame because now traffic is slowing as a result and of course getting much worse.
I sure wish I could find out what all these charts n stuff do. Torque to Load seems straight forward, but it doesn't respond like I'd expect. The Optimum chart doesn't make sense to me at all. Opt Monitoring I have a clue about now but not much more. It's like they made all this overly complicated just to Fu# with people.
Like why does Optimum Torque and Monitoring have the same #'s? Do they need to be the same or what? Do the #'s represent something real, or just #'s?
Then there's what Sub8 said, and what outlaw_50 said and misc others. Each time someone adds their thoughts on it I'm only more confused. Who is correct, or are any of them correct?
Considering how long these ECU's have been around you'd think you could find detailed and clearly defined definitions of what each thing does and how all of them fit into the big picture.
'16 E550 Coupe RWD - C207.373 / M278.922 / MED17.7.3 / 722.909
Sorry it took a bit to get back to you but let?s start with all your torque values seem to work for me been driving around speeding, cruising, etc. but I do notice that it is less powerful from the values I was using before only issue was the CEL and limp mode. Maybe there?s certain values in mine that are incorrect causing it to shut down. Maybe if we can get those values tweaked right it will definitely be a powerful tune. Those values I got were from 650wtq tune if you?d like I can post that along with the datalogs to see if you can figure anything out.
I?ve had a chance to do some little data logging here and there. I?m replying on my phone so when I get to my computer I can post those datalogs, secondly I?m not really sure how to add those parameters onto thr vcm it?s quite annoying
Made very little tweaks to the boost table and was able to see 16 peak psi but drops down to 10-12psi
It would be great to figure out how to hold boost throughout powerband
If you find the below two files on your pc and swap them out with these you'll have my Scanner settings. May not be what you want but it's much better than the default.
Not exactly sure where yours are but I think the default is "C:\Users\xxxx\Documents" xxxx being whatever you made your name in Windows
Save yours before replacing of course, just in case.
VCM Scanner.cfg
VCM Suite.cfg
To add channels you right click anywhere in here: Add PIDs.jpg
Then click the little flag upper left and it filters it showing only what is available in your car: Channel Selector.jpg
You may need to connect to your car because my .cfg file may be remembering my car? If so the choices could be different, I dunno, just a possibility.
The blue highlighted ones are those already in my list. To add one you just double click on it. Then you can Ctrl + up/dwn arrows to move it around and you can select several and do the same.
There are two ways to save what you have, one is the save icon (floppy disk) and that saves all your PID's, then right click on the PID area and select Display Properties which saves your colors. Saving the gauges, charts etc Layout and Properties is all in the right click.
The turbos are too small to make higher boost all through the range so it'll drop as you go. So I'll have ~14 at 5k and ~11 at 6k. So if you want more I guess bigger turbos are needed. Maybe better flowing exhaust but I wonder if that'll over spin the turbos? I don't know what they spin at now or what their limits are.
I'd imagine using pure Meth injection just after the air filter will bump boost and minimize their rpms. I haven't tried, it's just what I picture happening.
I bought a meth kit btw, but it's a lotta work to install it correctly. Putting it after the air filters seems like it might work better? And is substantially easier to do.
My tune settings are not ideal because I make too much power at lower rpms, but I have it set that way until I can better understand it. So right now it's very difficult to keep it under control below ~45 or so because of wheel spin. Starting from a stop it just spins, and if traction ctrl is On then it kicks in over and over and over so I can't win. Compared a manual throttle, it's 20x harder to control wheel spin with your foot. Of course that will be easier when I reduce low end power but it'll never be like a real throttle.
It does doughnuts effortlessly though, which I was doing last night. Never did that in this car before. Felt different than any car I've had before, heavier obviously but just a weird something's not right feeling. Like the tire pressure was way too low and the tire was going to come off the bead, which I'm sure is in my mind. I am a bit low at 28psi but can't imagine it popping off at that pressure. It also spins them easier because my tires are almost at the wear indicator. The lower psi helps with traction a lot but still not as good as new tires.
Starting to wonder if my car has a posi/torsion or whatever because so far I can't recall a time it's one legged it. It supposed to be open diff, and I know IRS is less likely to one leg it, but even when I gas it in a turn they both spin, like the doughnuts. What does yours do?
So this what I had in there last night, which I believe is the same as I posted earlier but with the Opt Monitoring back to oem so power was back: 20x.hpt
Which one are you calling the "boost table"? Torque to Load?
Yes, please post the 650 tune and the one you mentioned using my values that didn't work so well. And scanner logs
Last edited by chevota; 05-15-2022 at 04:17 PM.
'16 E550 Coupe RWD - C207.373 / M278.922 / MED17.7.3 / 722.909
my bad i called it boost tables i just mean pretty much anything to do with adding/holding boostIf you find the below two files on your pc and swap them out with these you'll have my Scanner settings. May not be what you want but it's much better than the default.
Not exactly sure where yours are but I think the default is "C:\Users\xxxx\Documents" xxxx being whatever you made your name in Windows
Save yours before replacing of course, just in case.
VCM Scanner.cfg
VCM Suite.cfg
To add channels you right click anywhere in here: Add PIDs.jpg
Then click the little flag upper left and it filters it showing only what is available in your car: Channel Selector.jpg
You may need to connect to your car because my .cfg file may be remembering my car? If so the choices could be different, I dunno, just a possibility.
The blue highlighted ones are those already in my list. To add one you just double click on it. Then you can Ctrl + up/dwn arrows to move it around and you can select several and do the same.
There are two ways to save what you have, one is the save icon (floppy disk) and that saves all your PID's, then right click on the PID area and select Display Properties which saves your colors. Saving the gauges, charts etc Layout and Properties is all in the right click.
The turbos are too small to make higher boost all through the range so it'll drop as you go. So I'll have ~14 at 5k and ~11 at 6k. So if you want more I guess bigger turbos are needed. Maybe better flowing exhaust but I wonder if that'll over spin the turbos? I don't know what they spin at now or what their limits are.
I'd imagine using pure Meth injection just after the air filter will bump boost and minimize their rpms. I haven't tried, it's just what I picture happening.
I bought a meth kit btw, but it's a lotta work to install it correctly. Putting it after the air filters seems like it might work better? And is substantially easier to do.
im not to sure of the limit but i know theres a guy in texas making 600+whp and 900+wtq out of the m278 stock turbos his psi is around 30 ( mods: intakes,downpipe,e85 which requires fuel pumps over e30 mix)
My tune settings are not ideal because I make too much power at lower rpms, but I have it set that way until I can better understand it. So right now it's very difficult to keep it under control below ~45 or so because of wheel spin. Starting from a stop it just spins, and if traction ctrl is On then it kicks in over and over and over so I can't win. Compared a manual throttle, it's 20x harder to control wheel spin with your foot. Of course that will be easier when I reduce low end power but it'll never be like a real throttle.
It does doughnuts effortlessly though, which I was doing last night. Never did that in this car before. Felt different than any car I've had before, heavier obviously but just a weird something's not right feeling. Like the tire pressure was way too low and the tire was going to come off the bead, which I'm sure is in my mind. I am a bit low at 28psi but can't imagine it popping off at that pressure. It also spins them easier because my tires are almost at the wear indicator. The lower psi helps with traction a lot but still not as good as new tires.
Starting to wonder if my car has a posi/torsion or whatever because so far I can't recall a time it's one legged it. It supposed to be open diff, and I know IRS is less likely to one leg it, but even when I gas it in a turn they both spin, like the doughnuts. What does yours do?
So this what I had in there last night, which I believe is the same as I posted earlier but with the Opt Monitoring back to oem so power was back: 20x.hpt
i try not to do donuts lol scared of drivetrain issues but tbh my car is bipolar some times one spins some time im fish tailing both tires
Which one are you calling the "boost table"? Torque to Load?
Yes, please post the 650 tune and the one you mentioned using my values that didn't work so well. And scanner logs
here are those files
22-05-17 12-48-05.hpl22-05-17 13-18-54.hpl
im having issues uploading 650 tq tune. ill keep trying
The one file was 5min of mostly idling and a short drive where you just putted around the block? The other file was 3 sec long.
Your temps suggest it was hot out, AC On and parked/driving on asphalt? No any useful data anyway, and not measuring torque or boost before the throttle?
'16 E550 Coupe RWD - C207.373 / M278.922 / MED17.7.3 / 722.909
here we go finally got some highway driving in
kr 0 degrees #2.hpl12-e550-m278 - Fresh-Start-3-- 650tq tune -REV-3-3.hpt
also uploaded that reference 650tq map
also as i stated before im not really that used to hptuners. my experience is with tuning toyota, honda, etc everything we need is usually there when datalogging. im still having a hard time figuring out how to add things
i tried to upload the vcm scanner you attached above but my old settings still popped up
it depends on where the settings are located and where it looks for them. mine often looks in the wrong spot and as a result i get the generic settings. annoying. i will help more when i get home.
I hate you... On 18.3 MAP you run circles around me on my best day. You did 40-90 in <3.5sec.
Me, 3.5sec gets me from 40-75 averaging ~28 MAP. I say averaging because my boost is all over the place, yours is like a rock. Mine was 25-33 during said run. Mine is never steady, not even close.
40-75.hpl
I'll check out your tune in a minute.
'16 E550 Coupe RWD - C207.373 / M278.922 / MED17.7.3 / 722.909
Wth is going on here?
wth.jpg
'16 E550 Coupe RWD - C207.373 / M278.922 / MED17.7.3 / 722.909
I bumped your Torque to Load
Bumped Max Desired Load in Airflow
Lowered ex temps a bit and undid whatever that was in the pix I posted.
The above three settings you had would kill my car. I didn't set them as high as mine, just bumped part way to see if your boost responds.
Then I did a few little things to hopefully prevent torque limitation.
I see in your 40-95 run your intake air temps skyrocketed. I'd do the pump mod so it's On all the time and see what happens. It make me wonder if your pump ever turned on at all, or maybe it's dead. Mine temp has never shot up like that, not even close.
12-e550-m278 - Fresh-Start-3-- 650tq tune -Chevota tinkering.hpt
And what car is the run you posted from? It's not the S550, nor does it have the tune you posted.
Last edited by chevota; 05-27-2022 at 09:42 PM.
'16 E550 Coupe RWD - C207.373 / M278.922 / MED17.7.3 / 722.909
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