Dave's another engineer that designs a lot of the flex fuel bolt ons and sensors that can be added to non equipped vehicles. Although I did not think he was tuning anymore - or at least he told me he wasn't the last time I talked to him?
So what's your method and the correct way Dave?
2010 Vette Stock Bottom LS3 - LS2 APS Twin Turbo Kit, Trick Flow Heads and Custom Cam - 12psi - 714rwhp and 820rwtq / 100hp Nitrous Shot starting at 3000 rpms - 948rwhp and 1044rwtq still on 93
2011 Vette Cam Only Internal Mod in stock LS3 -- YSI @ 18psi - 811rwhp on 93 / 926rwhp on E60 & 1008rwhp with a 50 shot of nitrous all through a 6L80
~Greg Huggins~
Remote Tuning Available at gh[email protected]
Mobile Tuning Available for North Georgia and WNC
He knows. Lol. I talk to him near constantly, and we’re working on a GM project together.
I’ll take my math to the grave. Lol.
All this crap trying to back calculate off airflow is absurd.
Back calculate off of delivered steady state exhaust measurements using known good injector information. Using fuel trims, reported airflow, any of that is dumb.
DSX Tuning - Authorized HP Tuners Dealer
http://www.dsxtuning.com
http://www.facebook.com/dsx.tuning
Just say no to bull s***.
IF YOU WANT HELP, POST A FILE!
Don't think we have anyway of measuring steady state exhaust flow or exhaust flow in general unless you're somehow using air and fuel going in to somehow convert that to exhaust flow going out but that would go back to using trims and airflow??? I assume you're using some special tool for measurement at that point.
2010 Vette Stock Bottom LS3 - LS2 APS Twin Turbo Kit, Trick Flow Heads and Custom Cam - 12psi - 714rwhp and 820rwtq / 100hp Nitrous Shot starting at 3000 rpms - 948rwhp and 1044rwtq still on 93
2011 Vette Cam Only Internal Mod in stock LS3 -- YSI @ 18psi - 811rwhp on 93 / 926rwhp on E60 & 1008rwhp with a 50 shot of nitrous all through a 6L80
~Greg Huggins~
Remote Tuning Available at gh[email protected]
Mobile Tuning Available for North Georgia and WNC
If you are seriously not going to help and take your math to the grave...then why even post? So if you won't share your magical math, then can you at least give us peasants some pointers or some type of direction that is not "dumb" so we can stumble around for the next few decades trying to figure it all out?
A standard approach will give you standard results.
My Tuning Software:
VVE Assistant [update for v1.5]
MAF Assistant
EOIT Assistant
2013 OBM A6 CTS-V Coupe
Mods: Headers back Billy Boat Exhaust, GripTec 2.65, 8.6 PowerBond Lower, LSX Innovations Solid Isolator, ID850's, NGK TR7IX's, Accel 9070CK Wires, Spectre CAI, SRI Ported Throttle Body, SRI Catch Can, NGK AFRM, 160* T-Stat, 0fx2gv Brick, Hard Line Delete W/3/4" Lines, FB 101 FMIC, Pierberg CWA50, Stoptech Drilled/Slotted Rotors, EBC Redstuff, Cut Stock Springs, Flat Bottom Steering Wheel
2006 Black Raven STS-V (Traded In)
Fully Modded: 459RWHP@5888rpm/451lbft@4696rpm
A standard approach will give you standard results.
My Tuning Software:
VVE Assistant [update for v1.5]
MAF Assistant
EOIT Assistant
Personally I think any of our math formulas work - it's just the whole stead state part that you're not going to get from customers logging or anywhere other than a controlled environment such as being on a dynometer.
2010 Vette Stock Bottom LS3 - LS2 APS Twin Turbo Kit, Trick Flow Heads and Custom Cam - 12psi - 714rwhp and 820rwtq / 100hp Nitrous Shot starting at 3000 rpms - 948rwhp and 1044rwtq still on 93
2011 Vette Cam Only Internal Mod in stock LS3 -- YSI @ 18psi - 811rwhp on 93 / 926rwhp on E60 & 1008rwhp with a 50 shot of nitrous all through a 6L80
~Greg Huggins~
Remote Tuning Available at gh[email protected]
Mobile Tuning Available for North Georgia and WNC
Pheasant checking in. Pass the popcorn!
The most hated, make the most power.
93 Ranger. 5.3 D1X. 1069hp.
All the oldies coming out You still tuning or did you call it?
2010 Vette Stock Bottom LS3 - LS2 APS Twin Turbo Kit, Trick Flow Heads and Custom Cam - 12psi - 714rwhp and 820rwtq / 100hp Nitrous Shot starting at 3000 rpms - 948rwhp and 1044rwtq still on 93
2011 Vette Cam Only Internal Mod in stock LS3 -- YSI @ 18psi - 811rwhp on 93 / 926rwhp on E60 & 1008rwhp with a 50 shot of nitrous all through a 6L80
~Greg Huggins~
Remote Tuning Available at gh[email protected]
Mobile Tuning Available for North Georgia and WNC
This is what I was thinking. Most folks aren't going to have access to a steady state dyno and laboratory grade exhaust sniffing equipment. This is not realistic for the majority. I would rather use the data generated from the ECM to tune the same ECM.
Welcome to the fray, player four!
A standard approach will give you standard results.
My Tuning Software:
VVE Assistant [update for v1.5]
MAF Assistant
EOIT Assistant
Last edited by Area47; 05-25-2023 at 03:03 PM.
The most hated, make the most power.
93 Ranger. 5.3 D1X. 1069hp.
You don’t need to measure exhaust flow or anything. Your known good injector data (*cough cough* OEM or Injector Dyanmics) is your flow meter, and your wideband tells you how much air you’re getting.
I make a living off of doing things better than other people, so I’m not going to share what shaves hours off my cal times. It was more of a note that maybe you (meaning everyone) should consider a very different approach.
And also not dismiss Jake… who is, well, not wrong when he tells you something.
DSX Tuning - Authorized HP Tuners Dealer
http://www.dsxtuning.com
http://www.facebook.com/dsx.tuning
Just say no to bull s***.
IF YOU WANT HELP, POST A FILE!
Although it doesn't help me, I can appreciate your appeal to maintain your competitive advantage.
I assume Jake is smokeshow. And as I have laid out, I am just not getting satisfactory results using other methods. So I have staked out on my own and discovered a much better solution. You may not agree with it and that is fine. So long as my fuel trims are +/-2% I think I am doing just fine.
A standard approach will give you standard results.
My Tuning Software:
VVE Assistant [update for v1.5]
MAF Assistant
EOIT Assistant
I think I know what you're talking about now - the mind and especially the memory isn't what it used to be - definitely used to be a lot smarter - stress is a killer - I had a formula years ago that did just that - used afr/eq error and injector pw's to dial in the VVE table - it based it off of fuel usage instead of airflow - it still wouldn't get it perfect, but got it within 2 to 7 percent first pass and still had to have the MAF failed if you wanted it to be truly 100% accurate... Also it was much worse with any sudden pedal movements than the air calcs combined with fuel calcs are. You may have even posted a formula for the foundation of it way back when. OR we based it off of Marcin's - I had another engineer helping me at the time - he came up with the base formula - again based off of yours or marcin's - may have been Marcin's the more I think about it and then I edited it to make it actually work correctly with cars on the dyno... Computer crashed and lost all of my older formula's - though I have since learned to save files to an external drive I never did get the formula back
Last edited by GHuggins; 05-25-2023 at 03:29 PM.
2010 Vette Stock Bottom LS3 - LS2 APS Twin Turbo Kit, Trick Flow Heads and Custom Cam - 12psi - 714rwhp and 820rwtq / 100hp Nitrous Shot starting at 3000 rpms - 948rwhp and 1044rwtq still on 93
2011 Vette Cam Only Internal Mod in stock LS3 -- YSI @ 18psi - 811rwhp on 93 / 926rwhp on E60 & 1008rwhp with a 50 shot of nitrous all through a 6L80
~Greg Huggins~
Remote Tuning Available at gh[email protected]
Mobile Tuning Available for North Georgia and WNC
This... There's a number of ways to get the job done. Just to state the obvious, my write-up on doing MAF and VE simultaneously is nothing new. It's just exploiting the additional data available on the CAN to get more done at once. The requirements are still the same though....has to be steady state. It will give you trash results if you don't try to keep things smooth. Then again, so will every other approach. That said...some attempts at calibration don't work. Dynamic airflow is one of them. If you're steady state, it matches with the MAF so it'll make it look like you've created something new. But deviate from steady state and you really don't know what the prediction will do on a modded vehicle.
Steady state is always key. For the DIY guys, you can get it pretty close on the road. If you're a snatch like Dave, then you can use your fancy underutilized dyno. Hell you could even use the compressible flow model and calculate an accurate airflow from the throttle alone. Just ask Chrysler lol
Last edited by PGA2B; 05-25-2023 at 03:56 PM.
2013 OBM A6 CTS-V Coupe
Mods: Headers back Billy Boat Exhaust, GripTec 2.65, 8.6 PowerBond Lower, LSX Innovations Solid Isolator, ID850's, NGK TR7IX's, Accel 9070CK Wires, Spectre CAI, SRI Ported Throttle Body, SRI Catch Can, NGK AFRM, 160* T-Stat, 0fx2gv Brick, Hard Line Delete W/3/4" Lines, FB 101 FMIC, Pierberg CWA50, Stoptech Drilled/Slotted Rotors, EBC Redstuff, Cut Stock Springs, Flat Bottom Steering Wheel
2006 Black Raven STS-V (Traded In)
Fully Modded: 459RWHP@5888rpm/451lbft@4696rpm