ok i just copied the tune ill download it tomorrow after school. on the shifting not sure how excactly it should feel but i guess it feels good maybe a bit softOriginally Posted by kingtal0n
ok i just copied the tune ill download it tomorrow after school. on the shifting not sure how excactly it should feel but i guess it feels good maybe a bit soft
test tune 4 log.hpltest tune 4 10,23.23 night.hpt the start problem got fixeded
We just want to pull fuel out of the VE table now in those rich idle regions until the air fuel goes into the 14.9 to 15.2 range,
10-24-23 changes.jpg
Once we do this we can assure that the VE table is responding to our changes and that the plugs can stay clean and we can move to the next step
If you want to keep reducing the numbers there on your own until the wideband is showing the correct air fuel when the engine is fully warm you can.
It wont hurt the engine at all if you go too far, for example 16:1 or 16.5:1 it will run fine at idle and low speeds. So feel free to experiment. But bring it back to 15.2:1 best, when the engine is fully warmed 200-210*F ok.
The cold start looks very good. The trans line pressure rises properly when you stab the pedal. Its just a bit of VE stuff right now to take care of.
test run 205 temp over.hpltest run to 205 temp.hpltest tune 5 10,24.23 night.hpt i got a question. on the side wall of my tires it reads p235/75/r15, do i insert it in tier wizard as
LT 235/75/r15>
Use calculator to find tire size
Make sure your differential Gear Ratio is accurate, you can spin the driveshaft and count the turns of the tire usually depending on the type of diff
tire and gear.jpg
Input to the calculator
Then, Verify using a GPS that your VEHICLE SPEED In the scanner matches actual vehicle speed on the GPS
If vehicle speed matches reality on the GPS then it should be good
Next make these 5 changes and see if the air fuel leans out this time more.
What these changes are doing is hopefully removing the clamp or lower limit on fuel injection thus making it possible to lean out the engine as we desire.
5 changes.jpg
There is a chance when you adjust these limitations the VE table will be too lean and the engine may not run well or even at all.
if that happens simply paste in your original VE table to reset the fuel back to stock and it will run again but probably rich. Then, simply remove fuel like we've been doing to make it go into the 15's again.
Last edited by kingtal0n; 10-26-2023 at 02:47 AM.
Im really happy with what I see, If you explain to me in your own words so far what you've learned I'll better be able to teach you what is happening,
try to answer these questions in your own words, you can look up as much as you want to learn but when you reply give me your thinking and understanding
1. What is the purpose of the VE table and what is our target air fuel ratio for the VE table
2. What is the purpose of power enrichment
3. What is the potential issue with having wrong VE values in the VE Table for our gen3 application
I'm working on something for a day in the mean time please try to think about those questions
Here is what the latest VE table changes accomplished, very good
what happened.jpg
I think you see where this is going. I quickly created an excel calculator file for helping you tune the VE Table faster to get it close quickly.
Simple follow what it says to do, paste in your previous and current logs, counts, and previous/current VE tables, I already setup appropriate targets.
air fuel calculator beta.xlsx
And it will auto calculate some VE table changes for you. Cells with low count comparisons appear with red numbers, don't paste those until you review the log wideband behavior carefully.
I will help you understand what you are doing but for now this aide will help you move quickly, I feel that we should focus on finishing up your ride then go back and fully learn to tune and examine what we did and what we could do and for the future. It won't work on values in power enrichment so don't make any changes to the VE Table once power enrichment turns on for those cells, around 75kpa and higher (75 to 100)
1 the ve table changes your air/fuel ratio by removing or adding fuel. The target air/fuel ratio should be 14.7 or up to 15.2 at addle.
2 im not sure what power enrichment is, but i know it adds fuel when goin over cruising.
3 it can create a bad air/fuel ratio casing it to be too lean or rich which can Couse problems.
Screenshot (42).png so this are the next changes I should make?
Copy the black numbers to their exact locations, then compare the old and new values using compare feature (compare the latest file to itself before and after the black values are added). Try to smooth them out by reducing the magnitude of the change so it isn't as dramatic of a difference.
The idea behind the excel file is to start you off tuning by yourself. I will help you with a video or words but I want to see what you can do alone first.
So do like this:
A. Make the changes suggested by the excel file (black numbers) and then compare old vs new and reduce the magnitude of the change slightly where it needs smoothing, does this make sense?
B. Collect a new log file
C. Follow the directions on the excel file to paste the new collected log and generate some new suggested changes
Try to do this once by yourself, if you get stuck its okay just let me know what you don't understand so I can properly introduce these topics
Answers:
1. Yes the VE table adjusts fuel, all VE tables are fuel calculation tables. But it also does one other thing for your computer: It calculates engine Torque. When you decrease the VE value in the table you are reducing fuel AND reducing the calculated engine torque. This is important in your gen3 application because calculated torque is used for transmission pressure. That is why we are keeping an eye on the force motor current that I had you add already.
2. Power enrichment changes the target air fuel ratio to add extra fuel on top of what the VE table provides, allowing you to keep leaner air fuel ratios in the VE table and use the power enrichment only when necessary to add fuel to those VE table values. The reason we do like this is because like I said in #1 the VE table predicts torque, not just fuel. So keeping the realistic TORQUE value in the VE table then adding extra fuel via the power enrichment table allows the ECU to keep track of roughly realistic torque values, rather then having torque get way out of realistic just by adding fuel to the VE table.
3. This was a trick question, not meant to confuse you but teach you a lesson. What is a 'wrong' value in the VE table? Consider this question now. If I have a number, lets say "20" in the VE table, how do we know its wrong? Lets say I Put 20 into the VE table but the air fuel ratio is correct. Can that '20' still be wrong? Yes because '20' could predict wrong torque and wrong transmission pressure. So the VE table could be wrong in TWO IMPORTANT WAYS: Wrong air fuel ratio, or Wrong transmission pressure. It must match both correctly to be sufficient for driving and reliability.
I added some more functionality to the excel file, this one will now make guesses whenever there is insufficient data from previous logs.
Near the bottom on the right hand side are some new tables which will take your last wideband log and try to guess how far to change the VE table based on averages from other cells where there is data.
Updated file:
VE auto tuner beta2.5.xlsx
Try to use it fill in the green with data you collect, set the wideband to log decimals 0.00 at least 2 decimal places for increased accuracy wideband logs.
Last edited by kingtal0n; 11-01-2023 at 03:29 AM.
Updated it some today. I wrote some VBA code but I can't upload macro enabled files to hptuner website so we are stuck with innate excel logic. sigh
Updated File:
VE auto tuner beta2.5.xlsx
Last edited by kingtal0n; 11-01-2023 at 03:29 AM.
i just saw the new file tuner. ill try it out right now. This is what i got with the other oneair fuel calculator beta2 first try.xlsx im input it tomorrow and re-do it again.
Ok I see you are trying to do power enrichment. I did not setup the file yet for power enrichment and I did not explain how to use it for power enrichment. However I think you can handle it or at least get started. But,
Use this file instead for the tuning, delete all previous files. I fixed some bugs and made it compatible with power enrichment- sort of. I will explain once you do a little more and do your best.
VE auto tuner beta2.5.xlsx
Please read this warning. We did not discuss power enrichment yet and I told you stay away from 75KPA+ regions for now. However if you absolutely must hit those spots there is one simple rule you must follow.
Look at the target air fuel ratio chart in the file I provided here from this point. Look carefully at 100KPA row and nearby- notice the 12.0's and 12.5's , rich air fuel ratios.
Once you pass 75KPA You need to keep the engine rich like those ratios. If you see any 14's or 15's you should NOT run the engine hard at those lean air fuel ratios.
Make sure they are going down into the 12's. Keep adding to the VE table to make this happen as needed, I already setup your power enrichment tables to do this once the VE tables are correct.
Dont worry if the VE values don't 'make sense' from 60KPA to 100KPA they might go up and then back down, its fine. A strange hill is okay. As long as the wideband smoothly goes rich as you pass through the 65-75KPA range into 80 90 100KPA like the target air fuel ratio table shows you. If you understand this then you can keep going. If you have any questions please ask.
These are targets you need to see on the wideband and as you tune the VE Table you are target these by adjusting the VE table up and down. We will play with Power Enrichment settings more later. For now try to get these targets adequate.
Do not run the engine hard with lean air fuel ratios above 13.5. "Hard" is basically 75KPA to 100KPA for your engine.
Here are some tips, reminders, and an example log from my car. Use the logging filters to make the wideband log more accurate. Delete values when you paste the log that don't make sense or should not be used.
There are many of those type of values don't be afraid to just delete them, not every logged value is accurate you should develop a feel for which ones are true and which are false, if you plan to do any tuning whether its with the help of a file or on your own, you must re-visit each value and determine how true or un-true it is, then manually adjust it as needed. Paste and Copy techniques are only for ROUGH tuning. Once you learn how to tune and trust your assessments you must not use the file or copy and paste techniques any longer, you should be able to adjust without copy and paste helping. The file I made was just to get you started and show you the math behind our changes, try to understand how the file works so you can think like the file and realize its inadequacies and this will help you understand why files and copy and paste methods are not ideal and can not be used for true fine tuning of an engine. Averages are not tuning, it just gets you close enough so you can take the last step on your own.
tips.jpg
You're welcome to these filters, just as everyone else. It'll snub out throttle transitions. Works way better than TPS filter.
Post #109:
https://forum.hptuners.com/showthrea...287#post748287
7th (bottom one) would apply here. It goes into the 'Filtering Function' section of the wideband histogram. Helps to clone the wideband histogram and apply the filter to that. Two wideband histo's - one raw, one filtered. That way you can compare.
i tested the new tune but i feel like its to lean11,1,23 test.hpltest tune 8 11,1.23.hpt, also it started knocking for a while then it went away. i cheeked the oil but it was good, then i was looking at the oil pressure, it was at 19 at idle, is that too low, would a oil change fix. it my oil life is at 94
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