I need help, I can not figure this out!

[Nitroused383]

I posted a picture of the transient fuel numbers you should try. My car reads the lowest kpa @ 30 degrees of timing, that doesn't mean that is where you set your idle timing. My idle stabilizes best around 18-22 degrees of timing, same as the LS3 headed 408 with 9.9:1 compression I tuned. Thats what the over under/speed tables are for, when your idle drops your timing goes up to help with recovery. Your idle looks erratic as fuck, try setting it the timing lower. Seems like you're not willing to accept help so have a nice day.

[Texas_WS6]

I do accept help. Not trying to get in a pissing contest with you. I can hear and feel the car. When I lower the timing to those levels it does not want to idle. I begins to hunt and surge when coming to a stop. It tries to die out when the AC comes on. Now there may be other issues causing this, but right now the best idle in all conditions is were I have it down to 28 degrees. I am not trying to argue with you, nor do I not believe you, I am just trying to explain were this engine seams to like the idle timing at. I am sorry if I seam to not be responsive to your advice.

I just finished installing my 2step. I had to add a relay to the 2step and use the 12v signal to turn it on because of the way my transbrake works (is activated). It all tests out good, so I am going to do the things you advised to my transiant fuel, and also see if this thing will now build boost while on the Tbrake. So when I post the nexts scans i expect to see the fuel all crazy were the 2step is on at. I will post back up my results from your advice.

Thanks for the help Nitroused383, I hope you will continue to help me with this.

Also Thanks to Frost for your help. I will be playing with the injector settings this weekend and I will again post up my results.

[Frost]

You tune the A/C with the A/C torque loss table, not with piling on timing at base idle.

You need to log inj avg pulse width and compare all of your off idle lean spots. You will see if it's a pattern pretty quickly and if that is indeed the issue. If the car needed transient fueling changes, it would most likely need them all over the place ( or in many places) not just off idle. These 80s are known to take some short pulse work to get right.

[Texas_WS6]

I tried the transient fuel changes. I first added 25% threw the entire chart just to see what it would do. It still goes lean when the throttle is opened. I added another 25% across the entire table, same thing.

The lean at idle issue was during warmup. Working on the OLEG table in those areas fixed that issue.

The lean stumble with opening the throttle is at any rpm, and any speed, not just at idle. It is less lean if the throttle is only opened say 5% as compaired to opening the throttle 50% or 100%. The more and faster the throttle is opened the worst the stumble and lean spot is.

As far as the turbo lag goes (if anyone here has been watching my LS1Tech posting on this) the 2step did not help. I am pretty much ready to throw the rear mount stuff away (or sell it, I am sure it would work right with a smaller turbo then the GT-88) and start building a front mount setup for my GT-88. I have done everything every one has sugested to make the lag go away. I am not going to spend any more money on trying to get the rear mount setup to work with the GT-88. I will have to wait until Elk season comes and goes first. I have to get one of my 3 FJ-40's going for the hunt, and my wife will not camp so I have to rent a dang cabin for a week! After Elk season I will start again on the turbo move. I will just work on the tune the rest of the summer.

It is much cooler tonight, probably 85-90 degrees, and the engine coolant temp is staying around 205. That is not exceptibale. I have a 160 degree thermostat in the car and a Be Cool radiator! I will never waist money again on any Be Cool product! I will contact Griffen next week and see what a 600+hp custom radiator will cost me.

Here are the scans I made tonight. Let me know what yall think. i will pull timing out of it this weekend and try tuning the car with lower timing now that I have better injector data.

Thank everyone.

[Frost]

This isn't very technical, more of a test to see that it can affect the issue. I just bumped it in steps in the region that the lean spots showed up.

[Texas_WS6]

Thanks, I will flash it and go for a ride this evening when I get off work.

[Texas_WS6]

When I try to open it or compare it I get an error message: "Unable to open file. Index was outside the bonds of the array.", I am not sure what that is about. Can you repost the data? Maybe something went weird there.

Thanks

[Frost]

Hard to believe that there is someone left on the board that doesn't recognize that error

It means that you need beta software.

[Texas_WS6]

Oh, krikkie! No I do not have the Beta version. Is it safe to get? We do I find it? Yep, I have been turning wrenches on the car and have not really been on the board for a while.

[Frost]

Send Bill an email (support@HP....) and include your cable serial number. Telll him you need access to the latest beta. He will make it available for download through your customer center.

[Texas_WS6]

Cool, I will do that now. Thanks for the Help Frost.

[Nitroused383]

Looks like adding transient fuel helped to me, but you didn't make a drastic change really. Looking at your IAC it does the same BS my buddies 408 does, funny same throttle body too. IAC jumps from 75 all the way down to 25. I think that fast 92 big mouth is junk, damn IAC holes are so small.

You went from 15.36 AFR at a WOT stab to 14.46 AFR. That is an improvement, try doubling your trans fuel numbers in the 80 , 90, 100 kpa columns all in the coolant ranges you are running, above 176 degrees. You were running 220 degrees coolant temp and you didn't make that drastic of a change. For the other lean spots with less than 100 % quick throttle transitions it looks like you need to add some in the short pulse adder from 3.0-4 msec range. Are you running stock fans with the air dam? Could be your fans and not the radiator, also make sure you actually have coolant in the radiator and it's not all in the overflow tank, I've had issues with that on stock LS1's usually its the cap and filled too high.

[KFZ)^]

Send Bill an email (support@HP....) and include your cable serial number. Telll him you need access to the latest beta. He will make it available for download through your customer center.

I can't really help the OP right now, but I can thank you Frost for sharing that info on how to get the beta software. Like Texas_WS6, I also didn't know that was why I always got that error message.
Thanks

[Texas_WS6]

Looks like adding transient fuel helped to me, but you didn't make a drastic change really. Looking at your IAC it does the same BS my buddies 408 does, funny same throttle body too. IAC jumps from 75 all the way down to 25. I think that fast 92 big mouth is junk, damn IAC holes are so small.

You went from 15.36 AFR at a WOT stab to 14.46 AFR. That is an improvement, try doubling your trans fuel numbers in the 80 , 90, 100 kpa columns all in the coolant ranges you are running, above 176 degrees. You were running 220 degrees coolant temp and you didn't make that drastic of a change. For the other lean spots with less than 100 % quick throttle transitions it looks like you need to add some in the short pulse adder from 3.0-4 msec range. Are you running stock fans with the air dam? Could be your fans and not the radiator, also make sure you actually have coolant in the radiator and it's not all in the overflow tank, I've had issues with that on stock LS1's usually its the cap and filled too high.

I have never plaid with them before so I was not sure how much to add, or if I was even going in the right direction. I will add in the area you have pointed out.
Yes, I have been fighting the IAC allot. I have the stock IAC motor, I wounder if I can enlarge the passage way?
I do have the stock fans on it. If by air dam you mean the dam in front of the condesor behind the windshield fluid resorvor, I took it out. I have removed my fog lamps and opened up the the front of the bumber were the license plate goes. I have the steel bumper removed and I have an air to air intercooler there now. My buddies D1SC 6.0L Camero, we did it the same way except he does not have the windshield fliud resorvor any more, and he has three fans on it now, 2 pushers and one puller, same radiator, and his heating problems are worst then mine. Mine will cool down to 176 degrees when the ambient air temp is 80 degrees or less. Its these dang 95+ days and nights that it can not handle. I did check the fluid this weekend, it is all good. This radiator does not cool any better then my stocker did.

I will try those setting tomorrow probably. I am on call and I have been out all night and day, so tonight I am going to just chill. Hopefully I do not get called out to work tomorrow and I will get a chance to play with the tune some.

Thanks again

[Texas_WS6]

I can't really help the OP right now, but I can thank you Frost for sharing that info on how to get the beta software. Like Texas_WS6, I also didn't know that was why I always got that error message.
Thanks

I sent them an email this morning, maybe they will hook me up Monday or Tuesday.

[Texas_WS6]

Ok, I did just a quick test. Not really related to the lean spikes but I want ya'lls ideas on this.

What I was testing was my 2step and building boost on the line. I wanted to find out first if the 2step would indeed make my turbo spool, and at what rpm. Because my convertor is too tight, I had to do this test in neutral symulating a M6 car. I found that with the 2step set to 4500rpm and reducing the timing down to 10 degrees, the turbo spooled up to 125kpa in about 1.5-2 seconds. This is great news, I have never been able to make my GT-88 (rearmounted) spool up (it has always spooled, but the lag time was 4-5 seconds, the lag is what I have been trying to get rid of). I have been fighting this for almost a year now, doing everything that was suggested.

Here is my question, without having to run 10 degrees of timing at 4500 rpm all the time, what can I do to the tune that will make my timing drop that low automatically at the rpm the 2step is set at and at WOT?

Thanks.

[Nitroused383]

I got a trick for you =) but this will only work for starts not while rolling. Under main spark advance tab set min tps to 100%. Set the max speed to 1-2 so it reverts back to your regular timing table after you take off. Now set your idle tables in drive / in park at the desired rpm to 10 degrees through the whole column, you can do this up to 4800 rpm. If you don't even want to use the 2 step try setting your spark retard > min spark advance vs rpm to -25 degrees. Now you can run negative timing (atdc) up to 25 degrees, try setting your idle tables to -10 to -20 degrees and see what happens, might make some noise and shoot flames

[The Alchemist]

This isn't very technical, more of a test to see that it can affect the issue. I just bumped it in steps in the region that the lean spots showed up.

I'm having the same tip in lean condition as the original poster.
I'll start a new thread so I don't muddy up the original poster's thread.

[nathanhine1977]

Anyone able to look at my logs?
Am having fun with transient tables?
CheersLSA transiant table first drve.hplLSA transiant table second drve no tuning chane.hpl21st May LSA Transient tables.hpt