Tuning for Timing.

[chummmma]

After tuning for 2 years it seems that not many people are tuning for max torque with timing. I rarely ever find a dyno with steady state run capability and even more rarely find a tuner who uses them for tuning the spark table for torque output. Just was wondering how many of you use steady state/spark tuning when you tune your/someone elses cars.

[Frost]

Well like you mentioned, there aren't a lot of steady-state dyno's (at least none really near me) to facilitate this... There are other ways to arrive at at an approximate derivative, but it takes a LONG time without that dyno, and isn't as precise.

[pHEnomIC]

Well like you mentioned, there aren't a lot of steady-state dyno's (at least none really near me) to facilitate this... There are other ways to arrive at at an approximate derivative, but it takes a LONG time without that dyno, and isn't as precise.

Any good tips for getting close?

[Redline MS]

Timing is where all the power is! Finding peak cylinder pressure is the key.

This is why we bought a steady state dyno. We have always tuned systems like FAST and GEN7 under steady load and would keep adding timing until the power stopped climbing. With real timing tuning capability today the same can be achieved.

Without a load controlled dyno this is hard to to. Some still will just keep adding timing until they hit KR which at least tells you the max timing the motor can tolerate. This to me is a bit barbaric as the difference between KR and peak cylinder pressure can be 5 or more degrees. More timing doesn't always mean more power. A motor can make the same power with 19 degrees as it can with 24...........i would prefer the 19 in that situation.

[chummmma]

Timing is where all the power is! Finding peak cylinder pressure is the key.

This is why we bought a steady state dyno. We have always tuned systems like FAST and GEN7 under steady load and would keep adding timing until the power stopped climbing. With real timing tuning capability today the same can be achieved.

Without a load controlled dyno this is hard to to. Some still will just keep adding timing until they hit KR which at least tells you the max timing the motor can tolerate. This to me is a bit barbaric as the difference between KR and peak cylinder pressure can be 5 or more degrees. More timing doesn't always mean more power. A motor can make the same power with 19 degrees as it can with 24...........i would prefer the 19 in that situation.

I wish you were closer to south jersey lol. the closest place I have found is in maryland or western PA. wish I could buy my own dyno but college tuition / car payments own me.

[Frost]

Any good tips for getting close?

Adding bits of timing in OLSD and watching the fueling result. Get the AFR right in SD and add timing. If it continues to use the fuel (lean out in the respective cells) you are doing right by going up. At some point, you will see that adding is having minimal impact and you have gone past optimal (go back!). This is tedious and time consuming and is generally out of bounds for a pro-tuner working on time constraint, and still not as accurate as the steady-state dyno.

[Russ K]

The difference in the AFR from spark knock to none is not any more consistent than from run to run, or a difference in the air temp.

Russ Kemp

[pHEnomIC]

The difference in the AFR from spark knock to none is not any more consistent than from run to run, or a difference in the air temp.

Russ Kemp

That is the way I feel when tuning spark. I cant find any accuracy in the spark. (My car was fueling very well then i tried someone elses spark table and it seemed to be rich at WOT with the same ve table.) Does this mean that I can add more timing?

[Frost]

The difference in the AFR from spark knock to none is not any more consistent than from run to run, or a difference in the air temp.

Russ Kemp

If that's true (well for one, I've wasted some time ) then indeed without a steady state all you have is go up and back off...

[jimmyblue]

Looking for more info on the relation of MBT to ping, I
have only found rough -2 type of numbers in searching
before. Also how this might trend at the lower to mid
cylinder charge ranges (not that it makes peak power
but ought to at least make for economy & responsiveness).