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Thread: Airflow Final Min

  1. #21
    Tuner Street Legal's Avatar
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    where can i get the final idle vs rpm vs gear table from ? i dont have it

  2. #22
    Senior Tuner 5_Liter_Eater's Avatar
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    Engine, Idle, Idle Airflow, Base Running Airflow, Airflow inal Minimum. This is LS2 specific. What is your vehicle?
    Bill Winters

    Former owner/builder/tuner of the FarmVette
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  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by 5_Liter_Eater
    Engine, Idle, Idle Airflow, Base Running Airflow, Airflow inal Minimum. This is LS2 specific. What is your vehicle?
    it's LS2 but sorry i meant the table in the scanner how can i log the final air flow minimum ? do i need to creat it ?

  4. #24
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    Yup, the LS2 idle seems much easier to tune then an LS1. I recalled Doug's advice of matching the MAF airflow (or Dynamic Cylinder Air for SD) that is used on LS1, and applied it to an LS2 and it works beautifully. One pass and it was done.

  5. #25
    Senior Tuner 5_Liter_Eater's Avatar
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    Import this histogram. All you need to have in your table is RPM and MAF in g/sec.
    Bill Winters

    Former owner/builder/tuner of the FarmVette
    Out of the LSx tuning game

  6. #26
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    I'm assuming this cannot be done in Speed Density right? Or could I still run SD and have the MAF just read? Does the MAF have to be calibrated... I haven't used the MAF since the CAM install.
    2005 Pontiac GTO LS2

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  7. #27
    Супер Модератор EC_Tune's Avatar
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    Just delete MAF Airflow and put in either VE airflow (table & histo) or Dynamic Airflow (table & histo)

    BTW: If you want your "shift speed" (manuals) improved a bit, just zero the table from 2000+
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  8. #28
    Senior Tuner 5_Liter_Eater's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EC_Tune
    BTW: If you want your "shift speed" (manuals) improved a bit, just zero the table from 2000+
    How does that work?
    Bill Winters

    Former owner/builder/tuner of the FarmVette
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  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by 5_Liter_Eater
    How does that work?
    Allows the throttle blade to close completely instead of ramping it closed in a decay rate fashion (like a dashpot).

  10. #30
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    I have spent a lot of time of my base idle airflow charts and actually recorded data and plotted all four gears including park, neutral and reverse. While I am not as advanced as some others I do know that changes as small as a tenth have affected my quality. My car idles at 750 or so. For idle quality I noticed two distinct adjustments that made the biggest difference. The first is the base airflow which not only helped with idle at stand still but also keeps the engine from stalling or surging while driving. The second thing that made a profound difference on the rythmic quality of the idle lope (232/236) of the cam was to set the idle airflow error to a high number like 200 and the airflow hysteresis number below it to 125.

    I used the scanner to get min MAF airflow #'s in all four gears and since the numbers are always 'rolling' I just took the lowest # and subtracted approx .4 at each rpm level. I know its a crude method, but that will get the car very drivable. I noticed that if you approach the bottom MAF # of any given rpm too close or you go above the lowest # the car may surge or even stall while driving. If you stay approx .5 or so, the rythmic idle will be back. If you go too far below the idle quality will wash away or smooth out.

    If I set that adaptive airflow # to say 50 which was stock, the computer would try to smooth out the rythmic thump. I would get about 4 or 5 hard rythmic lopes then the car would smooth out for about 5 to 10 seconds and the cycle would repeat. When I switched the two #'s to 200 and 125, the car would just lope back and forth and NEVER lose rythm! The car would literally shake side to side at a red light in D or Park no matter how long it would sit there. Cars behind me or beside me would notice the car rocking!

    So, basically, not a totally scientific explanation but I've got approx 10 hours of experimenting with this so it just depends on what your desired idle quality is.

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by 5_Liter_Eater
    If you have a VE to tune like you always tune the VE first. This is because you can take the MAF out of the equation to tune VE but not vice versa......
    I haven't tried it out since I haven't had a reason to, but you should be able to run almost solely off of the MAF. If I remember right, there's a couple values in the Dynamic Air field that would accomplish this.

    Its all semantics I guess.
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  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by EC_Tune
    Just delete MAF Airflow and put in either VE airflow (table & histo) or Dynamic Airflow (table & histo)

    BTW: If you want your "shift speed" (manuals) improved a bit, just zero the table from 2000+
    Duly noted.

    Maybe this will help with some of the problems I've had speed shifting at high RPM levels.

    Thanks for the tip !!
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  13. #33
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    I'm gonna try and play with this Min Airflow today and tomorrow, however, I noticed that my idle startup surge problem is related to electrical components. Very Weird stuff.

    If I have my headlights on (Auto) and start up the car after it had sat there for 4 hours, the idle will surge for about 15 secs. If I turn off the lights the surge stops. Same thing with the A/C.

    This makes me think twice if it's a Airflow or Alternator / UD Pulley problem. I'm running the SLP 25% UD Pulley.

    Any ideas what may cause that?
    2005 Pontiac GTO LS2

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  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by EC_Tune
    Just delete MAF Airflow and put in either VE airflow (table & histo) or Dynamic Airflow (table & histo)

    BTW: If you want your "shift speed" (manuals) improved a bit, just zero the table from 2000+
    Zero which table from 2000+?
    Last edited by Cyclone Chris; 03-31-2007 at 11:05 AM.
    2005 Pontiac GTO LS2

    MY FQUICK - http://www.fquick.com/cyclone_chris

    Mods:
    K&N Intake | 18" Staggered TSW Thruxton Setup | Toyo T1-R Tires | Billet Products Short Shifter | Kooks 1-3/4" LT Catted headers | NGK TR55 | Ported Stock Intake Manifold | Corsa Sport Exhaust | Polished T/B | FlowTech Streetsweeper V2 Cam | SLP UD Pulley | 160 Thermostat | LS7 Clutch | 39# Ford Blue Giant Injectors | Scorpion Roller Rockers |


    445 RWHP/413 RWTQ

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclone Chris
    I'm gonna try and play with this Min Airflow today and tomorrow, however, I noticed that my idle startup surge problem is related to electrical components. Very Weird stuff.

    If I have my headlights on (Auto) and start up the car after it had sat there for 4 hours, the idle will surge for about 15 secs. If I turn off the lights the surge stops. Same thing with the A/C.

    This makes me think twice if it's a Airflow or Alternator / UD Pulley problem. I'm running the SLP 25% UD Pulley.

    Any ideas what may cause that?
    Injector flow rate vs battery voltage maybe? Lower voltages being too rich... just guessing.

  16. #36
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    Well I messed around with it some today... I ended up taking the min Dyn Airflow values and pasted them into the table. For some reason the idle rpm kept going up. I noticed that all the adaptive idle prop tables were changed... I put these back to stock and will try again.
    2005 Pontiac GTO LS2

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    445 RWHP/413 RWTQ

  17. #37
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    Better

    I changed all the idle adaptive stuff back to stock. The cars seems to hold it's idle better now. 900 - 1000 rpm idle vs the 1300 rpm I was seeing earlier today. I'll have to let her cool down to see what she'll do on a cold start.

    Any recommendations from the logs and tune below?

    Thanks
    2005 Pontiac GTO LS2

    MY FQUICK - http://www.fquick.com/cyclone_chris

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    445 RWHP/413 RWTQ