How to adjust fueling vs intake air temp during closed loop?

[abc]

How would you guys quantify the results of a change to the charge temp.bias table?
Would you expect to see small changes in AFR or large changes?

[04silverado6.0]

In your case the first adjustment i would copy a stock table in. I think that will be your largest change.

[abc]

The largest change would be to go the complete opposite. I believe the deff. reads 0 to 2 adjustment range. I have run it with the stock table and was curious as what I may see as a change during a WOT pull when ECT changes less than 5 degrees but IAT changes more than 40 degrees.

I admit I haven't been scientific about the testing but, as of now what I am noticing with the table biased as far as it can be toward the IAT is it wants less fuel as the IAT rises during a pull. It was biased more toward the ECT (stock bias table) when I did the majority of VE tuning.

[edcmat-l1]

The table works basically how you would expect. With the bias towards iat you will have heak soak under the hood greatly interfere with fueling.

Mine behaves completely opposite of how you are describing. More bias toward the IAT compensation corrected the fueling dance with varying IAT readings.

In your case the first adjustment i would copy a stock table in. I think that will be your largest change.

The largest change would be to go the complete opposite. I believe the deff. reads 0 to 2 adjustment range. I have run it with the stock table and was curious as what I may see as a change during a WOT pull when ECT changes less than 5 degrees but IAT changes more than 40 degrees.

I admit I haven't been scientific about the testing but, as of now what I am noticing with the table biased as far as it can be toward the IAT is it wants less fuel as the IAT rises during a pull. It was biased more toward the ECT (stock bias table) when I did the majority of VE tuning.

He is most often wrong.

[04silverado6.0]

He is most often wrong.

When exactly have i been wrong?

[edcmat-l1]

When exactly have i been wrong?

Twice here. Every post in the TCC thread. Your P59 thread. Your "diag" claims. Saying I don't give any useful advice. So far as I've seen, 100% failure rate.

Best useful advice I could give here is, everyone should ignore anything you say.

[Fast4.7]

Twice here. Every post in the TCC thread. Your P59 thread. Your "diag" claims. Saying I don't give any useful advice. So far as I've seen, 100% failure rate.

Best useful advice I could give here is, everyone should ignore anything you say.

He was also suggesting a triple disc lockup clutch for towing abuse.

[04silverado6.0]

Even circle d recommends a triple disc for towing.

[04silverado6.0]

The largest change would be to go the complete opposite. I believe the deff. reads 0 to 2 adjustment range. I have run it with the stock table and was curious as what I may see as a change during a WOT pull when ECT changes less than 5 degrees but IAT changes more than 40 degrees.

I admit I haven't been scientific about the testing but, as of now what I am noticing with the table biased as far as it can be toward the IAT is it wants less fuel as the IAT rises during a pull. It was biased more toward the ECT (stock bias table) when I did the majority of VE tuning.

Numbers above 1 do not actually change anything. No need to go over 1.0.

[Fast4.7]

How would you guys quantify the results of a change to the charge temp.bias table?
Would you expect to see small changes in AFR or large changes?

Back to answering your question. The one I played around with trying to figure it out went like this. I tried both the 0411 L31 Van calibration as well as a LS P59 6.0L Van calibration just to get a feel for how the drastically different settings reacted. Neither was ideal so I went back to the L31 setup that was the closest to mine. Same air box and nearly identical ducting setups but obviously different intake manifold and cylinder head designs. I tested it from a 30F cold start at idle and let it warm up to an IAT of around 140F, took a decent amount of time, probably 30 minutes of datalogging. With the bias table out to lunch and not enough bias toward the IAT it was 6-8% rich right at the point it went into closed loop around 120F with an IAT sitting around 40F. As the coolant warmed up to the 195F thermostat opening it slowly leaned out to a point it was 6-8% lean. Then as the radiator and engine heat started heating the engine bay and intake tract it started richening back up until it was 8-10% rich again. At higher airflow rates the fueling was pretty much spot on with IAT changes, it was only idle and very low air/flow situations that had that table drastically throwing things off.

[Fast4.7]

Even circle d recommends a triple disc for towing.

Well a more reputable converter builder recommends a wide single disc as being far more durable. I have even seen the triple discs smoked in 10K miles with minimal towing.

[04silverado6.0]

Twice here. Every post in the TCC thread. Your P59 thread. Your "diag" claims. Saying I don't give any useful advice. So far as I've seen, 100% failure rate.

Best useful advice I could give here is, everyone should ignore anything you say.

I see you have plenty of time to scrounge the internet and be a dick to everyone. Dont you have anything better to do? Your business still open? Pretty booked up with appointments over here.

[04silverado6.0]

Well a more reputable converter builder recommends a wide single disc as being far more durable. I have even seen the triple discs smoked in 10K miles with minimal towing.

Who is your more reputable converter builder? Im sure yank will have the same recommendation.

[edcmat-l1]

I see you have plenty of time to scrounge the internet and be a dick to everyone. Dont you have anything better to do? Your business still open? Pretty booked up with appointments over here.

Just to assholes like yourself who wanna talk shit about people.

I didn't personally attack you. You did me.

I've been on vacation for a week. If you haven't noticed I haven't posted in a week. Some people actually unplug now and then. Today I'm resting up so plenty of time to be a dick to you.

Business ain't bad.

Like I said in the other thread. You're a bullshitter. You don't even have any real automotive background. You brag about being a better diag guy than an ASE tech and then use a timing chain and guide story. That ain't diagnostics.

You've taken multiple personal shots at me. Why can't you keep it technical? I tell you why, because you can't.

Yep I'm gonna be a dick to you forever now.

I challenge you to post anything of advanced technical knowledge or skill.

There are some others on here very strongly opinionated and not giving useful advice, immature as well. The op here?

^^^ Perfect example right here. Tell everyone how I never give any useful advice.

You figured out the ratio of negative feedback on roughly 5K vehicles? You know, with your math skilz.

[edcmat-l1]

I see you have plenty of time to scrounge the internet and be a dick to everyone.

This is called irony. Because you're the one who went scrounging the internet looking for negative feedback to post here to make me look bad. That's called projection. Accusing someone else of doing exactly what you're doing. It's common among liberals.

Dont you have anything better to do? Your business still open? Pretty booked up with appointments over here.

Another childish personal shot at me. Why can't you keep it technical? Because you can't.

[edcmat-l1]

I see you have plenty of time to scrounge the internet and be a dick to everyone. Dont you have anything better to do? Your business still open? Pretty booked up with appointments over here.

HPT failed log in.jpg

You trying to log into my account now you POS??? Real strange I get this message RIGHT NOW and have never gotten that message since I been on this board.

You're a real POS buddy.

[aaronc7]

Hptuners forum, the unexpected source of entertainment for the holidays.

Did you try reverse IP lookup and see if it's the general area? Could always use a VPN though I suppose.

[Alvin]

Not necessarily a huge problem I'm aware of.

My hot starts are acceptable enough for me now. They would not be good enough for someone who is not willing to tolerate 15 to 30 seconds of very lean behavior after a short to moderate heat soak.

What I am noticing that got me thinking about it, during the same ECT of say 180f
yet IAT near 50f, I am seeing 15 percent plus STFT compared to when the IAT are 90f.

I assume since cooler air is more dense, the engine would need more fuel to reach the same lambda target, assuming all other variables are close to the same. I also assumed the PCM is accounting for this in some manner.

It has been suggested to me to run my combo. in OL but this is one of the reasons I don't want to go strictly OL. I just restrict CL LTFT to min. positive change and little neg. change but CL STFT has much more room to operate.

There are a lot of things that can be adding up to this. But first start with this.. Does this have an actual drivability problem? Is it something you would notice if you weren't hyper focused on a laptop. This is not a condescending question.. but a serious one.


Beyond that.

Widebands/o2 sensors do not function the same hot vs. cold. The sensor data sheet will show you how temp will skew them. Long tube headers changes how fast the o2 sensors warm up. Make use of the factory CL time delay to ensure the o2 sensors are hot and ready before going into CL.

Only the fuel that is vaporized will burn. On these restarts.. while they maybe a decent ECT is not the same as a engine that has been running. This effects how much of the fuel that was injected actually burns.

On hot restarts you are also dealing with overheated fuel in the rail. Even if it doesn't get to the point of vaporlocking it will still effect fueling. Water doesn't have to boil off the sidewalk to turn to steam/evaporate. Same with gas in a 200F rail on shut down. Part of it will vaporize. It changes the fuel mass per volume. SO you can see how that is a new wild card.


On the ECT/IAT bias. If you didn't know.. it's meant to be an average between ECT and IAT. The math should be done in kelvin. For instance 100 F isn't twice as hot as 50F. Kelvin and Rankin fixes this. So at lower airflows you'll see it biased more towards ECT. This is because they assume the slower airflow though the engine is being heated by the intake ports, manifold, etc. The other table is the filter. How fast this calc can move. I honestly do not suggest messing with it.

[edcmat-l1]

Hptuners forum, the unexpected source of entertainment for the holidays.

Did you try reverse IP lookup and see if it's the general area? Could always use a VPN though I suppose.

I did and yeah, it doesn't mean it ain't him.

[SiriusC1024]

How would you guys quantify the results of a change to the charge temp.bias table?
Would you expect to see small changes in AFR or large changes?

You zeroed out the complex temp table. Really to answer your question depends on the location of the IAT sensor.