TipOut under moderate accel and decel

[athlon2k2]

I feel like this should be an easy one but I'm not grasping what's happening. My understanding is that the car can't hit target decel TQ so it goes into a limp mode, but I'm failing to understand why. My assumption is it has to do with my Torque tables but the one I created and the Roush one was almost identical. I'm currently running the Roush one. Currently I am locked into MP14.

Can someone just point me in the right direction?

Car details in my signature.

Here are a few examples of the TipOut: 9:03:23, 9:03:42, 9:11:13, 9:12:25, 9:13:00, 9:13:04
Basically everytime I let off the throttle and let it go into Torque Based Decel

Thanks.

drive to work 2-6-25 same issues.hpl

16 Mustang GT PP MT - Emissions Tune - ltft disabled - locked into MP14 - updated etc torque v4 .hpt

[Pistol_91]

The wrench light is coming on? Causing the car to drive very slowly? Not really sure exactly what you're saying here. BTW you are not locked into MP14 as OS was never adjusted so every time you get off the throttle or idle the cams move.

[veeefour]

TQ base decel is the normal thing to have on decel. If its acting up in that most most of the time means your TQ model is wrong

[athlon2k2]

@Pistol_91 Thanks for catching that it looks like I didn't save all the changes. I've updated it and will take a new log.
@Veefour Thanks for the feedback. I'm going to see if things look different after actually locking my MPs and cam pairing. Then start tweaking the TQ table again.

[athlon2k2]

Well I think I dialed in the TQ tables a little bit, my IPC Wheel TQ Errors are a lot better. I've notice that this TipIn and TipOut is happening almost all the time after a pull and let off the gas then try to give it gas again. It doesn't even have to be an aggressive pull. It will go back to normal after several seconds or if I push in/out the clutch. I'm assuming it's something at the low end of the torque table throwing it off. I'm just looking for what's causing it and what the threshold is.

I also noticed in this capture my STFT Bank 1 and Bank 2 drifted apart more than before. Is this a sign of an exhaust leak?

Thanks.

drive home from dentist - o2s might be off.hpl

[veeefour]

Whoever gave IPC and ETC tq errors tune advices should
be rowing free on Romang gallery ..

[athlon2k2]

@veeefour I googled the hell out of what you said and I don't get it, lol. I'm assuming you were saying that tuning for IPC and ETC TQ Errors is not something I should have focused on because it doesn't matter. I was under the impression with excess TQ errors the ECU would start taking over but I'm still a noob at this. You also mentioned something maybe being wrong with TQ model, so I have been updating the MP14 regular and inverse table to try to get everything to line up better.

[Pistol_91]

I can't seem to figure out why you're so worried about Tip in and tip out? Tip in is great to have, especially on 93. I personally would be worried about everything else in this tune so far.
Torque model is off. SD model is off. You have throttle closures in the middle of a WOT run. Your desired load is very low compared to actual air load. Tells me your TQ/SD model isn't right or close.
Fuel trims could be acting weird for a number of reasons, again, I wouldn't worry about it, until this tune is near finished. You have them close enough.
I also wouldn't worry about locking into 1 mapped point. You can tune it without doing that. Id only do that if you had a MAP sensor and you were dialing in SD perfectly, other than that, it's a waste of time. Some people may disagree, but you can tune these cars without doing all that.

[athlon2k2]

@Pistol_91 I appreciate the feedback. Unfortunately, we only have 91 where I'm at. Maybe the tipin and tipout isn't the main issues. It's the throttle closing and not responding to my inputs that I'm worried about. I guess I just thought that was what tipin and tipout was. Like I exceeded some limit so it starting to shut down. I do have a MAP sensor hooked up. The calculated MAP and actual map seem to overlap pretty well. I hope that a good start. Based on your feedback I'm going to dive more into the TQ and SD model. I attached the most recent tune I flashed. The air load and desired load are closer. If you see anything else, please let me know. Thanks.


16 Mustang GT PP MT - Emissions Tune - ltft disabled - locked into MP14 - updated etc torque v8 .hpt

[Pistol_91]

Scale everything higher than 1.5.
Your borderline spark tables look strange. Is this just a copy over from the Roush tune? I'm curious to why you would copy over an entire Roush tune to your own tune and flash it. Why not just use a Roush file?
Are you wanting to learn on your own? You can start with a stock file and make a base file, change things, see how certain changes effect things. It's not hard to start with a stock file.
Does the Roush file you have only have a few Mapped points enabled?

[athlon2k2]

I started with FI templates I got from a training class I took. It was supposed to be to get the tune to a "safe" spot to start tuning. My short term, goal to get my car to a solid point that will pass emissions. Long term I would like to learn to tune so I can make tweaks as I add upgrades.

[athlon2k2]

I have the Roush tune that I have been referencing a lot. I don't really know that I like the way Roush did things, but they know a lot more than me obviously. I'm using MP14-23, all the IMRC open ones.

[Pistol_91]

I got cha. The roush tune is a good tune. I prefer the way they set it up vs just using 14-26. Using 6 MPs is much simpler than 12.

[veeefour]

@veeefour I googled the hell out of what you said and I don't get it, lol. I'm assuming you were saying that tuning for IPC and ETC TQ Errors is not something I should have focused on because it doesn't matter. I was under the impression with excess TQ errors the ECU would start taking over but I'm still a noob at this. You also mentioned something maybe being wrong with TQ model, so I have been updating the MP14 regular and inverse table to try to get everything to line up better.

Have to say 99% of advice's and tuning guides posted here, are given by mathematicians and they are worthless - they never tuned anything
they just get super confident reading patents.

Id almost never share my golden rules but here are 3: forget about ipc and etc errors, dont be super anal about tuning the TQ model, forcus on limiters

[athlon2k2]

@Pistol_91 You have a point. I think I might start by pulling in and comparing data from the Roush tune I have. Hopefully that will get me to a good place while trying to understand what the differences are and why they made a difference.

@veeefour Thanks for the knowledge. My goal is to have enough understanding to tune my car and know why/what works. I don't have the time or patience to get that into the weeds. I've always been more of a hands-on type of person.