Coyote Gen4X

[topherchrisb]

Hey everyone. This is my first post so I'm probably breaking protocol somehow. I couldn't find a intro section to get familiar with the expected behavior for the forum.

I have a new Gen4x coyote in a factory five mark 4 roadster. I have a ford performance control pack on it and the thing seems to run pretty well out the gate. It feels a little hesitant and maybe a little rich but I think that is to be expected.

Problem 1:
I modified the wire harness a little bit to use an LED I have built into the dash over the stock MIL that came in the harness. The light is always on regardless of codes on the computer or not. The MIL is supposed to be ground controlled on pin 34 off the ECU. I've read a constant 2v across the wires they use for the light. That's enough to barely light the stock MIL and plenty to turn on the LED all the time. I can force an engine code to come up and read the same voltage across the two wires as when there is no code. I even snipped the wires straight out of the ECU harness and hooked the light up there to get rid of any wiring anomalies that could be present. What's funny is I get an evap emissions code P0446 when I unplug either of the lights. The engine doesn't have an evap system on it... and ford tells me that code shouldn't be possible on that ECU. I sent the thing into them to reflash it but unfortunately I get the same behavior. They also mentioned on the phone that they repurposed the evap wire for the check engine light in the control pack. To me it feels like they don't have the 4x configuration nailed down yet. They can't do anything else for me at this point they said.That's the price of early adoption I guess. Below is a post from my build thread describing some of the behavior. There is also a few videos of my testing. If anyone has any ideas... I'm listening. https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/show...l=1#post576422


Problem 2:
Now to the main reason I'm writing. I bought an RTD3 and some credits from a vendor that said they could tune a 4x. I have had a hard time trying to get the thing to read the ECU. Using the TDN app on my phone I get "Failed to Detect Vehicle Protocol". The tuner told me to download the windows app and try there. They said there will be a drop down to select TC298 if the software doesn't detect the proper ECU. When I try to use the Vehicle Reader in that software I get "Detect Protocol Failed" as well. I'm at a loss on this front too.

Do I sit on the sidelines and wait for the 4x knowledge to mature for a bit?

[topherchrisb]

Problem 2:
Now to the main reason I'm writing. I bought an RTD3 and some credits from a vendor that said they could tune a 4x. I have had a hard time trying to get the thing to read the ECU. Using the TDN app on my phone I get "Failed to Detect Vehicle Protocol". The tuner told me to download the windows app and try there. They said there will be a drop down to select TC298 if the software doesn't detect the proper ECU. When I try to use the Vehicle Reader in that software I get "Detect Protocol Failed" as well. I'm at a loss on this front too.

I think I learned the ECU goes into some type of sleep mode after a bit. I had left the IGN on and the battery on a smart charging tender while I'm working on this so I don't have to worry about the power drain. I cycled the IGN off and back on then the desktop software could see the ECU. It still could not recognize it but after selecting no VIN on the first pop up I was able to see the drop down menu the tuner was talking about. There were two TC298 options one for 2018+ and one for 2019+ I tried both and it seemed like it was working. But after a short period I would get an error message I can't exactly remember right now. I was frustrated and had to walk away for a bit.

[smithspeed]

you got a gen 4 ecu? those are still locked and no tuning is available. or did you get a Gen 3 Mustang ECU (TC298) and you are trying to use it with a Gen4 mustang engine? RTD is tied to whomever the tuner is you bought it from, they should be helping you with all of that.

What ECU did you purchase?

[topherchrisb]

you got a gen 4 ecu? those are still locked and no tuning is available. or did you get a Gen 3 Mustang ECU (TC298) and you are trying to use it with a Gen4 mustang engine? RTD is tied to whomever the tuner is you bought it from, they should be helping you with all of that.

What ECU did you purchase?

It's called a gen 4x. The X is the important distinction. It's a gen4 block/internals with a gen 3 intake manifold. I had wrote the tuner to ask if they could tune them yet and they responded saying they could. They even changed their site so that you could select gen4x when picking a tuning device and credits. It seems they may have jumped the gun though. They were quick to take the money... but now they are saying it's an HP tuners problem. I didn't understand the relationship between the devices, software and tuners that use them really till recently.

https://performanceparts.ford.com/part/M-6007-M50H

[Pistol_91]

Bad ass build man. Curious to see the finished product once done. What tuner did you speak to that claimed they could tune this and aren't helping you? If they're claiming it's an HPT problem, tell them to think outside the box here and try PCMtec. No offense but they probably aren't very good tuners/people if they took your money and told you they can tune and have not delivered. Sue them for offering a service and not providing. LOL. Look into Wengerd Tuning. He should have knowledge on this set up.

[smithspeed]

https://www.hptuners.com/articles/hp...Control%20Pack

Which VCM suite version are you using, might need to install the beta version.

[topherchrisb]

Bad ass build man. Curious to see the finished product once done. What tuner did you speak to that claimed they could tune this and aren't helping you? If they're claiming it's an HPT problem, tell them to think outside the box here and try PCMtec. No offense but they probably aren't very good tuners/people if they took your money and told you they can tune and have not delivered. Sue them for offering a service and not providing. LOL. Look into Wengerd Tuning. He should have knowledge on this set up.

It is Wengerd I'm dealing with. I didn't know if there was a policy dealing with talk about third party vendors so I was trying to avoid outing them. This was the last correspondence we've had...

"HP tuners makes the software and does support the gen 4x. RTD flasher will read it and you can install the drivers from hptuners.com.

We went ahead and issued a refund as this has nothing to do with us. This is the only software out there that supports a gen4x currently.

Your order has been refunded and canceled"

It is a really fun project. I have 85 miles on the car mostly with out the body even on just driving it around the neighborhood. Here is it's current state with lots of body work in my near future.
20250521_070059[1].jpg

[topherchrisb]

https://www.hptuners.com/articles/hp...Control%20Pack

Which VCM suite version are you using, might need to install the beta version.

I had gotten this link from them to try when the andriod phone app didn't work. https://files.hptuners.com/RTD%20Fla...%20Flasher.msi
I installed that and run it with the below info. The trouble codes outside of the evap one are me manually trying to trigger the check engine light for the reason 1 problem I was having above.

5/21/25 6:48:16 AM
VCM Suite Product: RTD Flasher 1.0.157

Operating System: Windows 10 (build 19045)
Microsoft .NET: 4.0.30319.42000, 4.7.1 or later
CPU: Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-6600K CPU @ 3.50GHz
Available Memory: 12,317 MB


Device ID: 2252100192
Credits Purchased:     4
Credits Used:          0
Credits Available:     4
Licensed Features: Pro Feature Set, 


ConnectionMethod: USB
ID: 2252100192
HardwareVersion: 4.2.0
ManufactureDate: 2/25/25 8:48:04 PM
PartNumber: 6251
FirmwareVersion: 5.3.50
FirmwareStageName: Release
FirmwareControllerGroup: 0
PoweredOnTime: 00:06:09
VehicleConnectedTime: 00:06:07
VehicleDiagnosticConnector: 1
Bluetooth HardwareVersion: 4.2.0
Bluetooth FirmwareVersion: 2.2.1


Protocol Info: ISO 15765-2, J1962: CAN, 500 kb/s

ECM: 7E8, CAN, ECM -EngineControl
VIN: ?????????????????
Calibration IDs: ????????????????
Calibration VNs: 623EFCD2
Basic PIDs: 44
Trouble Codes: 
P0103 - Mass or Volume Air Flow A Circuit High (Permanent)
P0113 - Intake Air Temperature Sensor 1 Circuit High  (Permanent)
P0355 - Ignition Coil E Primary/Secondary Circuit (Permanent)
P0446 - Evaporative Emission System Vent Control Circuit (Permanent)
Scanning Methods: ISO 15031-5 Mode 0x01 Functional, ISO 15031-5 Mode 0x01 Physical, CAN Listener

I get this as a result when trying to read the ECU with either of the TC298 options:
tuner_error1.png

I did download the beta version previously and I get this info when I run that version:

5/21/25 6:54:59 AM
VCM Suite Product: VCM Editor 5.1.4410 Beta

Operating System: Windows 10 (build 19045)
Microsoft .NET: 8.0.16, 4.7.1 or later
CPU: Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-6600K CPU @ 3.50GHz
Available Memory: 12,140 MB
DpiX: 96, DpiY: 96 

FlashId Database: 2024-06-14
FlashId Links Database: 2024-06-14


Device ID: 2252100192
Credits Purchased:     4
Credits Used:          0
Credits Available:     4
Licensed Features: Pro Feature Set, 


ConnectionMethod: USB
ID: 2252100192
HardwareVersion: 4.2.0
ManufactureDate: 2/25/25 8:48:04 PM
PartNumber: 6251
FirmwareVersion: 5.3.50
FirmwareStageName: Release
FirmwareControllerGroup: 0
PoweredOnTime: 00:12:46
VehicleConnectedTime: 00:12:44
VehicleDiagnosticConnector: 1
Bluetooth HardwareVersion: 4.2.0
Bluetooth FirmwareVersion: 2.2.1


Protocol Info: ISO 15765-2: Standard 11 bit Normal, J1962: CAN 500 kb/s

ECM: 7E8, CAN, ECM -EngineControl
VIN: ?????????????????
Calibration IDs: ????????????????
Calibration VNs: 623EFCD2
Basic PIDs: 44
Trouble Codes: 
P0103 - Mass or Volume Air Flow A Circuit High (Permanent)
P0113 - Intake Air Temperature Sensor 1 Circuit High  (Permanent)
P0355 - Ignition Coil E Primary/Secondary Circuit (Permanent)
P0446 - Evaporative Emission System Vent Control Circuit (Permanent)

And I get this error when trying to read the ECU here:
tuner_error2.png

[smithspeed]

I would suggest opening a ticket with HP tuners on it, they should be able to pull the entire diag log and figure out what's going on.

[Pistol_91]

It is Wengerd I'm dealing with. I didn't know if there was a policy dealing with talk about third party vendors so I was trying to avoid outing them. This was the last correspondence we've had...

"HP tuners makes the software and does support the gen 4x. RTD flasher will read it and you can install the drivers from hptuners.com.

We went ahead and issued a refund as this has nothing to do with us. This is the only software out there that supports a gen4x currently.

Your order has been refunded and canceled"

It is a really fun project. I have 85 miles on the car mostly with out the body even on just driving it around the neighborhood. Here is it's current state with lots of body work in my near future.
20250521_070059[1].jpg

All good. Wengerd is very good at what he does and doesnt screw anyone around. Id do what smithspeed suggested and open a ticket.

[topherchrisb]

I've been back and forth a few times with the HP Tuners support. They recommended I try a bench harness to try and read the tune off the ECU. I tried to find a prefabbed available from someone but was unable. Now I'm trying to do the research to custom make one with the bare minimum needed. I've been using the below link for my references when it comes to wiring the engine. Page 28 is the main PCM pinout documentation. I'm assuming I need a power, ground, CAN high/low, and the PCM wake wire? Also does it matter which of the power or ground connections I use? Any help is appreciated.

https://www.factoryfive.com/wp-conte...yote-Gen-4.pdf

[DH Individual]

From my Experience the FRPP Wiring Harnesses sometimes do cause weird things which make the Gen4X MG1CS019 ECM falling on their face from seeing improper "Ignition On", "SMR - Starter Motor Request", "ECM Wakeup" signals and other things.

this could cause the MPVI / RTD can?t see or recognize the ECM so can?t read or write it. For even hassle free operation in the future i would check the Inputs and outputs of the ECM on the Power, Ground and Ignition / Wakeup side of it.

PM me for the ECM Bench Connector Pinout