Btr camshafts

[unicornpower]

What in the world. LOL

The advance is 100% ground into the cam profile. if you have a 114 +4 that thing should show 110 when degreed.

[04silverado6.0]

What in the world. LOL

The advance is 100% ground into the cam profile. if you have a 114 +4 that thing should show 110 when degreed.

Yes.

[LilSick]

The advance is 100% ground into the cam profile.

if you have a 114 +4 that thing should show 110 when degreed.

the advance is ground in but the key word is 'should'

and are you sure it 'should' be at 110 when checked?

when talking gen 3 hemi (unless otherwise specified) we are referring to the exhaust centerline...

114 +4 'should' be installed at 118

this does not mean that when you install that cam it 'will' be there

LOL

a builder centerlines the cam

assemblers assume...

[04silverado6.0]

114+4 installs at 110...

[LilSick]

114+4 installs at 110...

only for half of the lobes...

you are in the MOPAR forum and referring to a HEMI

HEMI only has one sensor

and it is not on an intake lobe like you are prolly used to.

therefore, when referring to the centerline, we are referring to where the exhaust lobe is in relation to top dead center of the piston for said cylinder

which, if the LSA is really 114, and the cam is really advanced 4 degrees, would be 118 degrees : )

[Party340]

I?ve never seen a cam manufacturer specify the ECL only the ICL. But yes cams should be checked. The very first cam that I installed was an Ultradyne for a 340. Cam had a 108 LSA and the card said to install the ICL to 103. I lined the marks up and I?ll be dam it was 108. I thought that I made a mistake and quadruple checked it. So I did a 4 degree on the sprocket and a 2 degree offset key and it was at 102. The engine ran really good but I always wondered if I had just lined the dots up if it would have ran even better. So I did exactly that and it was a dog😂. So it went back to 102😊. Apparently they didn?t have any advance with the way it was keyed. Every cam after that has always been spot on.

[LilSick]

If you use a small enough wheel and/or a thick enough pointer you will never have to adjust the cam timing

I have built countless engines and have almost always needed to adjust

[04silverado6.0]

I have never heard of anyone adjusting a cam by ecl. In the tune, yes. Using a degree wheel why work backwards?

[unicornpower]

don't waste any more time. I now know that I have degreed so many cams wrong.

he is a senior tuner!!! LOL

[PurpleRam]

VVT HEMI only has one sensor

and it is not on an intake

AND IT"S NOT on the exhaust Lobe Either.............. the only place the ECL is important is in the minds of the "pro Internet Hemi Tuners"
It's the same for the whole Lock pin crap , 120 is close for the SRT cam, but the OEM 5.7s it's 114, I don't see anyone changing that in a tune..

When the cam is locked , there is NO reason to give a crap about the "numbers" on that page.

[LilSick]

When the cam is locked , there is NO reason to give a crap about the "numbers" on that page.

correct

the only numbers that matter when the cam is locked are the numbers that you find when measuring

except no one measures anything anymore

centerline the cam? why bother?

valve to piston? naw

push rod length? naw

it will be fine...

i am sure it is all close enough for my redneck shade tree take it out daddy it hurts race team

slap it together and send it.

[LilSick]

AND IT"S NOT on the exhaust Lobe Either.....

correct

sorta

but its on a part of the phaser that is bolted to the cam and it displays its reading in degrees

degrees of what?

degrees of crankshaft rotation

crankshaft rotation in relation to what?

in relation to the centerline of the exhaust lobe.


if you are running VVT (or limited vvt) and want your cam at WOT to swing from X at full advance, to Y at full retard, you are gonna have to measure some stuff

90% of the time you will have to order a adjustable gear too

[Spray-Cam Hell-Ram]

With the fun that you just had with your build you do not have any room to rib anybody?

about anything.

Not really sure what my previous build has to do with any part of this discussion or the "fun" I had chasing a sudden no-start condition and the sudden random compression readings across cylinders...but so you are aware, the "fun" finally came to an end after suspecting by process of elimination that there must be a crack in the block that I couldn't find or see, which was ultimately found and then confirmed after an ultrasonic test, and then a Magnaglow test, which ended the fun with scrapping the stroker engine build, but hey, who am I kidding Don... I'm sure you woulda had this all figured out, and with that same ignorant certainty that drips off nearly ever one of your posts on here. And no doubt, you woulda spotted the invisible crack in my block with the naked eye, and likely at first glance. This marks the third time in a row that Ive posted on someones thread to help them out and provide any help I can, whether that be providing needed info requested or provide tune file adjustments to try and help resolve an issue, and you've come in and posted with no intention of providing anything useful or helpful, either trying to call me out over the way Ive gone about helping the O.P. or have come on the attack to tell me I'm wrong about whatever Ive posted. I don't know what your problem is, but this post isn't just about me, its about everyone on this forum that you've come at and criticized or said some smart ass remarks towards or put down when they were trying to be helpful. If you are as smart as we all know you think you are, then cut out all the negative nonsense and focus that energy on providing some of this knowledge you say you've accumulated over the years. This is what this forum was created for. In my last post, when I asked if you had already forgotten, that meant, had you already forgotten what happened to you the last time you did this... I came on the forum to help another out and the OP of that thread was already thrilled with his adjusted tune file, and then you came onto the thread, only with the ill-intent of trying to call me out, yet again, and posted some dumb sh*t in an attempt to attack the manner in which I had gone about helping this individual and got destroyed because of it. And yet, here we are again...exact same sh*t and now the third time in a row you've attempted to "rib" me as you so put it as I'm trying to help someone on the forum, just to tell me that my cam specs are wrong and do so with that ignorant certainty we all know and love. Ive only ever come on here to try and help out others anytime I can and sometimes I end up picking up a tuning client or two along the way, and do so without constantly trolling the forum, ensuring that every first post on someone's thread says to hit me up for an overpriced, dumpster fire tune, or a tune, once paid, turned "consult" fee, instead of thinking to offer some self-less assistance regarding the thread's topic or issue at hand. As far as the cam specs go, they are absolutely correct as far as the intended specs are concerned and I think you know they are, especially in the context and intent in which they were given. And I know, your justification in saying they're wrong is because they haven't been verified by a degree wheel...We get it, you've been the source for providing the forum with this fun fact in nearly every thread you take part in. The +3 or 3-1/2 degrees advance included with the spec is not my suggestion, its already ground into the cam... its actually kind of weird that you even assumed this and that I would give out cam specs, but then tack on MY "suggested" install placement but I digress. I apologize for not responding sooner but Ive been one out of the few members on here who have been pretty busy writing tunes, taking over any "tunes, once paid, turned consults" that still need tuning, and putting out the previously mentioned dumpster fires and finally caught a moment to reply and to find that "room" I needed to rib you back my friend.


To 04Silverado6.0: You will just need to log "Exhaust cam center position or center line" in the scanner to find out where the PCM considers the ECL to be, and whether that be 125 or 128 degrees, you will use this logged value as your full advanced position in your tuning tables and retard the values in the exhaust cam tables down from that full advanced value shown in your log. Then based on the cam phaser limiter you are using you want to only retard the number of degrees that suits your chosen limiter, whether that be maybe a 4,7 or 8 degree limiter (4 degree limiter = 8 crank degrees, 7 is 14,and 8 is 16, and so on). Example: if you log the Exhaust cam center line at 128 and are using the BTR 4 degree limiter (8 crank degree) your VVT range would be from 128 degrees down to 121. So all of your VVT tables under "Airflow" > "Variable Camshaft" on the exhaust cam tables side of the page you would input values ranging from 128 down to 121 in these tables to tune your VVT. Don't worry about the intake side as the PCM only uses the exhaust cam side.

[Challenger1320]

Not really sure what my previous build has to do with any part of this discussion or the "fun" I had chasing a sudden no-start condition and the sudden random compression readings across cylinders...but so you are aware, the "fun" finally came to an end after suspecting by process of elimination that there must be a crack in the block that I couldn't find or see, which was ultimately found and then confirmed after an ultrasonic test, and then a Magnaglow test, which ended the fun with scrapping the stroker engine build, but hey, who am I kidding Don... I'm sure you woulda had this all figured out, and with that same ignorant certainty that drips off nearly ever one of your posts on here. And no doubt, you woulda spotted the invisible crack in my block with the naked eye, and likely at first glance. This marks the third time in a row that Ive posted on someones thread to help them out and provide any help I can, whether that be providing needed info requested or provide tune file adjustments to try and help resolve an issue, and you've come in and posted with no intention of providing anything useful or helpful, either trying to call me out over the way Ive gone about helping the O.P. or have come on the attack to tell me I'm wrong about whatever Ive posted. I don't know what your problem is, but this post isnt just about me, its about everyone on this forum that you've come at and criticized or said some smart ass remarks towards or put down when they were trying to be helpful. If you are as smart as we all know you think you are, then cut out all the negative nonsense and focus that energy on providing some of this knowledge you say you've accumulated over the years. This is what this forum was created for. In my last post, when I asked if you had already forgotten, that meant, had you already forgotten what happened to you the last time you did this... I came on the forum to help another out and the OP of that thread was already thrilled with his adjusted tune file, and then you came onto the thread, only with the ill-intent of trying to call me out, yet again, and posted some dumb sh*t in an attempt to attack the manner in which I had gone about helping this individual and got destroyed because of it. And yet, here we are again...exact same sh*t and now the third time in a row you've attempted to "rib" me as you so put it as Im trying to help someone on the forum, just to tell me that my cam specs are wrong and do so with that ignorant certainty we all know and love. Ive only ever come on here to try and help out others anytime I can and sometimes I end up picking up a tuning client or two along the way, and do so without constantly trolling the forum, ensuring that every first post on someone's thread says to hit me up for an overpriced, dumpster fire tune, or a tune, once paid, turned "consult" fee, instead of thinking to offer some self-less assistance regarding the thread's topic or issue at hand. As far as the cam specs go, they are absolutely correct as far as the intended specs are concerned and I think you know they are, especially in the context and intent in which they were given. And I know, your justification in saying they're wrong is because they haven't been verified by a degree wheel...We get it, you've been the source for providing the forum with this fun fact in nearly every thread you take part in. The +3 or 3-1/2 degrees advance included with the spec is not my suggestion, its already ground into the cam... its actually kid of weird that you even assumed this and that I would give out cam specs, but then tack on MY "suggested" install placement but I digress. I apologize for not responding sooner but Ive been one out of the few members on here who have been pretty busy writing tunes, taking over any "tunes, once paid, turned consults" that still need tuning, and putting out the previously mentioned dumpster fires and finally caught a moment to reply and to find that "room" I needed to rib you back my friend.


To 04Silverado6.0: You will just need to log "Exhaust cam center position or center line" in the scanner to find out where the PCM considers the ECL to be, and whether that be 125 or 128 degrees, you will use this logged value as your full advanced position in your tuning tables and retard the values in the exhaust cam tables down from that full advanced value shown in your log. Then based on the cam phaser limiter you are using you want to only retard the number of degrees that suits your chosen limiter, whether that be maybe a 4,7 or 8 degree limiter (4 degree limiter = 8 crank degrees, 7 is 14,and 8 is 16, and so on). Example: if you log the Exhaust cam center line at 128 and are using the BTR 4 degree limiter (8 crank degree) your VVT range would be from 128 degrees down to 12. So all of your VVT tables under "Airflow" > "Variable Camshaft" on the exhaust cam tables side of the page you would input values ranging from 128 down to 121 in these tables to tune your VVT. Don't worry about the intake side as the PCM only uses the exhaust cam side.

You’re right on the money, Spray-Cam Hell-Ram. I couldn’t have said it any better!!!

[04silverado6.0]

Not really sure what my previous build has to do with any part of this discussion or the "fun" I had chasing a sudden no-start condition and the sudden random compression readings across cylinders...but so you are aware, the "fun" finally came to an end after suspecting by process of elimination that there must be a crack in the block that I couldn't find or see, which was ultimately found and then confirmed after an ultrasonic test, and then a Magnaglow test, which ended the fun with scrapping the stroker engine build, but hey, who am I kidding Don... I'm sure you woulda had this all figured out, and with that same ignorant certainty that drips off nearly ever one of your posts on here. And no doubt, you woulda spotted the invisible crack in my block with the naked eye, and likely at first glance. This marks the third time in a row that Ive posted on someones thread to help them out and provide any help I can, whether that be providing needed info requested or provide tune file adjustments to try and help resolve an issue, and you've come in and posted with no intention of providing anything useful or helpful, either trying to call me out over the way Ive gone about helping the O.P. or have come on the attack to tell me I'm wrong about whatever Ive posted. I don't know what your problem is, but this post isnt just about me, its about everyone on this forum that you've come at and criticized or said some smart ass remarks towards or put down when they were trying to be helpful. If you are as smart as we all know you think you are, then cut out all the negative nonsense and focus that energy on providing some of this knowledge you say you've accumulated over the years. This is what this forum was created for. In my last post, when I asked if you had already forgotten, that meant, had you already forgotten what happened to you the last time you did this... I came on the forum to help another out and the OP of that thread was already thrilled with his adjusted tune file, and then you came onto the thread, only with the ill-intent of trying to call me out, yet again, and posted some dumb sh*t in an attempt to attack the manner in which I had gone about helping this individual and got destroyed because of it. And yet, here we are again...exact same sh*t and now the third time in a row you've attempted to "rib" me as you so put it as Im trying to help someone on the forum, just to tell me that my cam specs are wrong and do so with that ignorant certainty we all know and love. Ive only ever come on here to try and help out others anytime I can and sometimes I end up picking up a tuning client or two along the way, and do so without constantly trolling the forum, ensuring that every first post on someone's thread says to hit me up for an overpriced, dumpster fire tune, or a tune, once paid, turned "consult" fee, instead of thinking to offer some self-less assistance regarding the thread's topic or issue at hand. As far as the cam specs go, they are absolutely correct as far as the intended specs are concerned and I think you know they are, especially in the context and intent in which they were given. And I know, your justification in saying they're wrong is because they haven't been verified by a degree wheel...We get it, you've been the source for providing the forum with this fun fact in nearly every thread you take part in. The +3 or 3-1/2 degrees advance included with the spec is not my suggestion, its already ground into the cam... its actually kid of weird that you even assumed this and that I would give out cam specs, but then tack on MY "suggested" install placement but I digress. I apologize for not responding sooner but Ive been one out of the few members on here who have been pretty busy writing tunes, taking over any "tunes, once paid, turned consults" that still need tuning, and putting out the previously mentioned dumpster fires and finally caught a moment to reply and to find that "room" I needed to rib you back my friend.


To 04Silverado6.0: You will just need to log "Exhaust cam center position or center line" in the scanner to find out where the PCM considers the ECL to be, and whether that be 125 or 128 degrees, you will use this logged value as your full advanced position in your tuning tables and retard the values in the exhaust cam tables down from that full advanced value shown in your log. Then based on the cam phaser limiter you are using you want to only retard the number of degrees that suits your chosen limiter, whether that be maybe a 4,7 or 8 degree limiter (4 degree limiter = 8 crank degrees, 7 is 14,and 8 is 16, and so on). Example: if you log the Exhaust cam center line at 128 and are using the BTR 4 degree limiter (8 crank degree) your VVT range would be from 128 degrees down to 12. So all of your VVT tables under "Airflow" > "Variable Camshaft" on the exhaust cam tables side of the page you would input values ranging from 128 down to 121 in these tables to tune your VVT. Don't worry about the intake side as the PCM only uses the exhaust cam side.

Thanks, and thanks for the awesome roast. That actually answered questions i didnt know i had yet. Aside from mopar cams every mopar build ive had was using a phaser lockout so the experience was not there for me, im not a engine builder but i do know how things operate and assemble for the most part. I do have one more unrelated question, first boosted mopar ive had(stock 2020 challenger manual 5.7). While dialing in the ve the table seemed to get a odd shape, out of boost was ok but anything into boost my ve values were near or less than my idle values. What is causing this?

[LilSick]

What is causing this?

what we have here is a Matthew 15:14 situation : )