6L80E Trans Torque Management - How to Reduce Duration of Timing Profile?

[DRTWRK]

Can someone lead me in the right direction. I have done my due diligence with the search feature but unable to find specific answers.

I am noticing on my logs (profile as reflected on my chart) the duration of time from when my timing starts to be pulled and when it recovers is taking longer than desired.
I know there may be several tables that effects the timing profile but would like some help on identifying which tables would have the greatest effect in reducing this "timing pull duration" Specifically when it starts its ramp, how long it stays at the min set timing and when it ramps back out.

This is a fully built 6L80e with an E38 and all hard parts currently available and approx. 900 + rwhp.

I do believe the use some torque management is necessary to make the trans live under abuse and know the 6L80e can handle a lot more power than many believe. But the tune is and always has been the key to survival.

[Alvin]

What is the commanded shift time during this?

[Cringer]

Can someone lead me in the right direction. I have done my due diligence with the search feature but unable to find specific answers.

I am noticing on my logs (profile as reflected on my chart) the duration of time from when my timing starts to be pulled and when it recovers is taking longer than desired.
I know there may be several tables that effects the timing profile but would like some help on identifying which tables would have the greatest effect in reducing this "timing pull duration" Specifically when it starts its ramp, how long it stays at the min set timing and when it ramps back out.

This is a fully built 6L80e with an E38 and all hard parts currently available and approx. 900 + rwhp.

I do believe the use some torque management is necessary to make the trans live under abuse and know the 6L80e can handle a lot more power than many believe. But the tune is and always has been the key to survival.

Hard to say without a tune and log file. The commanded shift time is a big part of this, but other things are happening as well (ie disengaging the TCC, filling clutch solenoids, etc).

You may find some relief in changing the field [TCM] 484 - Speed Control Termination Mode to Immediate. Otherwise, if you have it on a ramp setting there will be additional delay during the ramp down and up process. Additionally, what may LOOK like a long ramp can also be caused by a slow polling rate for the channel data. If you really want to get better timing data, remove as many channels from the log and set the polling interval to 10ms to isolate the event.

Aside from the data in the log file, what is the human experience like? Are you noticing any actual drivability/performance issues?

[DRTWRK]

Thanks Guys

I've been a member here for about 15 years but seldom make post or send attachments. It seems I can attach the .hpt file but not the .hpl

My .hpl log will show the extended timing pull that allows the engine to fall on its face due to the timing being pulled dwn to around 3 degrees before the shift completes. The 3 degrees is what I have in the Min Timing Torque Management but in the past has not pulled the timing long enough to feel the power loss.

Probably need a little help with this also.

[Cringer]

Is it happening for all gears? Just looking at the 2-3 shift times ([TCM] 15712) it does not follow the gist of the other shifts.

[DRTWRK]

Recently, I've only noticed it between 3-4 at full throttle using TUTD. I have my shifts set while in TUTD to auto shift at a certain rpm.
If I can attach my latest log, you can easily see my problem but for some reason, I'm unable to.

When I use the TUTD to initiate shift prior to my preset auto shift speed the timing immediately drops to the 3* Min Spark>Torque Management setting as it is supposed to, but it remains there for a half second or so, sufficient to make a very noticeable power drop before completing the shift. I'm trying to identify which settings that control the duration in time that timing is being pulled.
The current tune is one that I have used for years, and the trans has been very reliable.

I have recently increased my injectors from ID 1300 to ID 1700's and have touched up my Virtual Torque Tables but not changed them enough to think they are the problem.

[DRTWRK]

Recently, I've only noticed it between 3-4 at full throttle using TUTD. I have my shifts set while in TUTD to auto shift at a certain rpm.
If I can attach my latest log, you can easily see my problem but for some reason, I'm unable to.

When I use the TUTD to initiate shift prior to my preset auto shift speed the timing immediately drops to the 3* Min Spark>Torque Management setting as it is supposed to, but it remains there for a half second or so, sufficient to make a very noticeable power drop before completing the shift. I'm trying to identify which settings that control the duration in time that timing is being pulled.
The current tune is one that I have used for years, and the trans has been very reliable.

I have recently increased my injectors from ID 1300 to ID 1700's and have touched up my Virtual Torque Tables but not changed them enough to think they are the problem.

[DRTWRK]

I just took a screen shot and probably no help but it's not letting me download the actual log

[Cringer]

Recently, I've only noticed it between 3-4 at full throttle using TUTD. I have my shifts set while in TUTD to auto shift at a certain rpm.
If I can attach my latest log, you can easily see my problem but for some reason, I'm unable to.

When I use the TUTD to initiate shift prior to my preset auto shift speed the timing immediately drops to the 3* Min Spark>Torque Management setting as it is supposed to, but it remains there for a half second or so, sufficient to make a very noticeable power drop before completing the shift. I'm trying to identify which settings that control the duration in time that timing is being pulled.
The current tune is one that I have used for years, and the trans has been very reliable.

I have recently increased my injectors from ID 1300 to ID 1700's and have touched up my Virtual Torque Tables but not changed them enough to think they are the problem.

The first 3-4 shift at WOT is funky. This has to do with the solenoids powering down and fluid draining out. So the first shift takes extra time to fill it back up with fluid, then all subsequent shifts are normal. So you can test this by ensure you shift into 4th before your first WOT pull.

However, if this happens all the time, then it is something else.

What I see is that your standard automatic Drive selection uses Pattern X ([TCM] 462 - Pressure Pattern Select) and Pattern X is mapped to Normal Mode ([TCM] 468 - Control Mode) while your TUTD is using Pattern Z ([TCM] 465 & 466) which is mapped to Special mode ([TCM] 470 - Control Mode). And all your Pattern X & Special modes are different than your Pattern X & Special settings. So if the car shifts fine in Drive but not TUTD, this is your problem, just synch the settings, there are quite a few (or just make the TUTD section use X and Normal to test).

May be a few other places, but these are the main ones:
Shift Pressures > Upshift has pattern X, Y, and Z definitions.
Shift Pressures > Adaptive has definitions for SP (special) settings
Shift Timing > Upshift has definitions for Special

Personally I use X & Normal for everything, so Drive = TUTD and all settings stay in synch which each other. And I only have to change things in one spot, which then applies to everything.

[DRTWRK]

The first 3-4 shift at WOT is funky. This has to do with the solenoids powering down and fluid draining out. So the first shift takes extra time to fill it back up with fluid, then all subsequent shifts are normal. So you can test this by ensure you shift into 4th before your first WOT pull.

However, if this happens all the time, then it is something else.

What I see is that your standard automatic Drive selection uses Pattern X ([TCM] 462 - Pressure Pattern Select) and Pattern X is mapped to Normal Mode ([TCM] 468 - Control Mode) while your TUTD is using Pattern Z ([TCM] 465 & 466) which is mapped to Special mode ([TCM] 470 - Control Mode). And all your Pattern X & Special modes are different than your Pattern X & Special settings. So if the car shifts fine in Drive but not TUTD, this is your problem, just synch the settings, there are quite a few (or just make the TUTD section use X and Normal to test).

May be a few other places, but these are the main ones:
Shift Pressures > Upshift has pattern X, Y, and Z definitions.
Shift Pressures > Adaptive has definitions for SP (special) settings
Shift Timing > Upshift has definitions for Special

Personally I use X & Normal for everything, so Drive = TUTD and all settings stay in synch which each other. And I only have to change things in one spot, which then applies to everything.

I use TUTD for all driving. I will sometimes make a hit without revving to the upper rpm that it will auto shift for me. (Short shift) The screen shot is from a short shift but using TUTD paddles.
Generally, the shape of the timing curve is more of a V shape and not the long duration of timing pull the screen shot reflects.