Could someone kindly check my tune for VE tuning setup

[Kzhurley]

Could somebody check my tune to make sure I'm tuning my VE correctly using ltft/stft?

Issue I'm having is that I've made many logs and seemingly gotten it pretty close. I log for 15-20 min then copy and paste special multiply 1/2 then smooth table some then load tune into truck then reset fuel trims and make another log and repeat. I've had the ve within 1-2% rich up to 3500 rpm or so.

Then here is the problem I have. I want to use the wb02 sensor for the 3500 rpm and up. so i go into my tune and disable the ltft and stft. then i log and it is showing everything I've already tuned is 5-8% richer than it is with the fuel trims.

So then i go ahead and make a few logs tuning with the wb02 and get everything back down to 0-2% error. But if i switch back to using fuel trims everything is 5% lean again.

I just want to make sure I'm going in the right direction.

My setup is as follows:
2005 GMC Denali
LQ9/4L65E
212/22x 107 lsa truck norris cam
1-7/8 full length headers 3" dual exhaust with x-pipe
12574927 8100 vortec injectors
Cold air intake
AEM x300 wired into serial to usb

Here is my current log and tune.

ltftstftsep2.hpl

ltftstftstep2.hpt

Thank you for your time

[abc]

If I understand your quandary, your attempting to tune with the factory NBO2's, then do similar tuning with an aftermarket WBO2's? I know you mentioned a cut line of 3500 rpm but that's not the best way to look at it. Separate your tuning line with when you want the PCM to go into open loop, or more commonly referenced to PE. Tune everything below PE with the NBO2's and take care of open loop PE with the WBO2s. You can compare the two when done but don't chase your tail attempting to pit the the sensors against each other.

Rarely will the factory NBO2's and an after market WBO2's line up perfectly. If your seeing a 3 to 5% difference between the two, your in the ball park.

I didn't look into how you have your WBO2s controller set up, but that can be a real issue and can drastically effect the sensor output reading.

[horsepowerguru427]

Could somebody check my tune to make sure I'm tuning my VE correctly using ltft/stft?

Issue I'm having is that I've made many logs and seemingly gotten it pretty close. I log for 15-20 min then copy and paste special multiply 1/2 then smooth table some then load tune into truck then reset fuel trims and make another log and repeat. I've had the ve within 1-2% rich up to 3500 rpm or so.

Then here is the problem I have. I want to use the wb02 sensor for the 3500 rpm and up. so i go into my tune and disable the ltft and stft. then i log and it is showing everything I've already tuned is 5-8% richer than it is with the fuel trims.

So then i go ahead and make a few logs tuning with the wb02 and get everything back down to 0-2% error. But if i switch back to using fuel trims everything is 5% lean again.

I just want to make sure I'm going in the right direction.

My setup is as follows:
2005 GMC Denali
LQ9/4L65E
212/22x 107 lsa truck norris cam
1-7/8 full length headers 3" dual exhaust with x-pipe
12574927 8100 vortec injectors
Cold air intake
AEM x300 wired into serial to usb

Here is my current log and tune.

ltftstftsep2.hpl

ltftstftstep2.hpt

Thank you for your time

Your closed loop is turned off if youre wanting it on for tuning with trims. closed loop enable.jpg

Trims and widebands dont agree perfectly all the time. a 5% swing is still pretty good. Youre VE still needs some work though pretty sharp transitions everywhere on the map. Use the trims for anything other than power enrichment or wide open throttle. Once it goes into those areas you can blend where the trims end into the wideband readings. If youre going to use trims when youre all done, then rely on the trims in the areas they can cover.

Heres a post i made a few years ago about interpolating cells on the VE table. https://forum.hptuners.com/showthrea...sepowerguru427 nowdays, I Usually only use "Paste special" the first iteration or so of changes. After that I adjust individual areas based on what the log shows. Such as if 2000rpm is lean 5% from 40kpa-70kpa then ill just richen up that specific area by 5% and retest after covering all the areas that are not where i want them to be at.

[Kzhurley]

If I understand your quandary, your attempting to tune with the factory NBO2's, then do similar tuning with an aftermarket WBO2's? I know you mentioned a cut line of 3500 rpm but that's not the best way to look at it. Separate your tuning line with when you want the PCM to go into open loop, or more commonly referenced to PE. Tune everything below PE with the NBO2's and take care of open loop PE with the WBO2s. You can compare the two when done but don't chase your tail attempting to pit the the sensors against each other.

Rarely will the factory NBO2's and an after market WBO2's line up perfectly. If your seeing a 3 to 5% difference between the two, your in the ball park.

I didn't look into how you have your WBO2s controller set up, but that can be a real issue and can drastically affect the sensor output reading.

Thanks for the reply. I?m not sure when exactly PE should be enabled at. I?ve just seen many do it around 3500-4000. On the wideband input the reading in the scanner matches what my gauge reads so i believe the math should be right. What do I look at to determine where I should have PE being enabled? I tow a lot with this truck so I don?t know how much that affects when it enables.

[Kzhurley]

Your closed loop is turned off if youre wanting it on for tuning with trims. closed loop enable.jpg

Trims and widebands dont agree perfectly all the time. a 5% swing is still pretty good. Youre VE still needs some work though pretty sharp transitions everywhere on the map. Use the trims for anything other than power enrichment or wide open throttle. Once it goes into those areas you can blend where the trims end into the wideband readings. If youre going to use trims when youre all done, then rely on the trims in the areas they can cover.

Heres a post i made a few years ago about interpolating cells on the VE table. https://forum.hptuners.com/showthrea...sepowerguru427 nowdays, I Usually only use "Paste special" the first iteration or so of changes. After that I adjust individual areas based on what the log shows. Such as if 2000rpm is lean 5% from 40kpa-70kpa then ill just richen up that specific area by 5% and retest after covering all the areas that are not where i want them to be at.

Thanks for the reply. So if I am understanding correctly, since I have closed loop disabled I?m am basically only tuning with the stft?s? Since the ltft?s are inactive currently?

I am still trying to get the hang of table smoothing. It seems like I always smooth it too much and it ends up making that valley I see in the ve table at 2000rpm and 2800rpm on the very next log. That?s why I was wondering if I still had something enabled in the tune that I missed.

So I should change the closed loop enable table back to stock so the Ltft will be active or should I just tune with the stft?s?

Thanks again

[horsepowerguru427]

Thanks for the reply. So if I am understanding correctly, since I have closed loop disabled I?m am basically only tuning with the stft?s? Since the ltft?s are inactive currently?

I am still trying to get the hang of table smoothing. It seems like I always smooth it too much and it ends up making that valley I see in the ve table at 2000rpm and 2800rpm on the very next log. That?s why I was wondering if I still had something enabled in the tune that I missed.

So I should change the closed loop enable table back to stock so the Ltft will be active or should I just tune with the stft?s?

Thanks again

youre using STFT in open loop currently. If it was mine, i would enable LTFT and closed loop. Then use LTFT+STFT histogram to do the fueling in normal driving areas. When youre in PE or WOT you will need the data from the wideband, since your stock o2s cant read much out of stoich range. Do a few iterations of collecting data with LTFT+STFT and apply to the VE table. Be sure to clear your fuel trim data in the scanner special functions before each log. Otherwise, youre just chasing your tail.

When you see your fuel ready status change from CL to OL due to PE or WOT, that is when you want to use data from the wideband.

If you have a really aggressive cam or forced induction a wideband is the only way since the overlap or excessive AFR is out of stoich range at certain VE areas.

As far as the table goes, interpolate can be used inbetween cells or whole rows or columns. Youre wanting smooth transitions, not sharp drop offs or sudden increases. I usually apply data, interpolate between cells to "hand smooth" everything as much as i can. Then i MIGHT use a smooth all, but usually ill just smooth individual areas if needed. Smoothing the whole map changes lots of areas that you might not want to be altered.

[Kzhurley]

Thanks for the reply. I think I may be figuring it out slowly lol.
Would you mind taking a look at a few tunes and logs to make sure im smoothing out my ve in the right direction?
Here is my current tune that i smoothed the ve.

Attachment 162454

And heres a short light throttle log i did afterwards.

25-07-15 02-16-59.hpl

And here is the new tune after smoothing again.

25-07-15 02-16-59.hpl

Does it look like im going in the right direction?

Thanks for all the help

[horsepowerguru427]

Thanks for the reply. I think I may be figuring it out slowly lol.
Would you mind taking a look at a few tunes and logs to make sure im smoothing out my ve in the right direction?
Here is my current tune that i smoothed the ve.

Attachment 162454

And heres a short light throttle log i did afterwards.

25-07-15 02-16-59.hpl

And here is the new tune after smoothing again.

25-07-15 02-16-59.hpl

Does it look like im going in the right direction?

Thanks for all the help

1. the attachment wont open.
2. Those 2 logs are the same file lol
3. You need to be loggiing cylinder airmass in channels. This is why your spark advance and retard histograms are not populating data.
4. LOG TPS%

Yes, the VE fuel trims look fine. If youre within +/-5% you can call that close enough. Most of us are a little OCD and get it much closer, but itll never always be right on the money. Things in the engine are always moving and changing so its a constant hunt for accuracy. I would get another log of higher RPM and different load areas. Remeber, 3000rpm going uphill is much different load than 3000rpm going downhill. Fill in everything you can with stop and go driving, a little highway, midthrottle, light throttle. I usually find an old paved road and ill come to a stop, push the accelerator to a certain point (30%maybe) and hold it in gear up to 4000-4500rpm. Come to a stop and do the same thing a few more times from different pedal percentages at "launch". Even leaving a stop sign driving normally or entering the highway at 70, when youre accelerting to that point, try to keep the pedal movements to a minimum.

Its important to keep transients down for accurate data. This mean you want steady state data. Everytime you move the pedal it affects transient fueling and it takes a small amount of time to correct the lean or rich condition. So when i start at 30% or 45% (or whatever %) I i sink the pedal to that point easily and hold it there til i hit the rpm im looking for. This gives a large sweep with minimal transients, ideally. You have to eyeball the scanner and correlate the pedal % to cells in the VE table.

On Decel, instead of just letting off the pedal and letting it idle back down until you stop (which needs to be done to fill cells) you can change throttle percentage at the end of the run to something lower than your chosen throttle % and hold pedal there. Allow it to decel for a few seconds (5-6s ish) and then lower the pedal more. Repeat. What we dont want to do is hit the pedal hard enough from the start that it enters PE and the trims zero out (if we're tuning with fuel trims)

Also, you can make a pass at 50%tps, for instance, and then make the same pass with the brake held slightly. Or while cruising highway speeds or any speed, apply the brake a little, but try to keep the vehicle speed where its at. This helps fill load cells as wel...ALLOW BRAKES TIME TO COOL IF YOU CHOSE TO USE THIS METHOD.

Alternatively, since the idle VE is pretty close on you tune, you could work on idle tuning if youre having surging or idle hang issues. Be warned, if you tune idle and then change air model calibration (VE) then you should recalibrate idle.