No Petal Running LOST newbie

[Joen]

Please can someone help get me somewhat back on the right track, installed a bigger cam with vvt delete in this and now have lost all throttle response when running (petal works key on not running) have resorted back to the original main file to many times to count, I don't think I changed anything but what it takes to make a bigger cam run, I know there is some things that are not ideal in original tune and I'm working on it but ran fine before swap I've had this 6.2 airboat for a couple of years, it was built / swapped by a boat builder and not sure of the format it was tuned in or deleted.
Plan on having it pro tuned just want to make sure the stuffs right before I waste someone's time airboat new.hpt boat run 3.hpl

[RDF1]

That datalog doesnt show any pedal movement.
Also Vehicle speed shows 158mph. Might want to adjust your Top Speed Limiters just in case.

[Cringer]

Please can someone help get me somewhat back on the right track, installed a bigger cam with vvt delete in this and now have lost all throttle response when running (petal works key on not running) have resorted back to the original main file to many times to count, I don't think I changed anything but what it take to make a bigger cam run, I know there is some things that are not ideal in original tune and I'm working on it but ran fine before swap I've had this 6.2 airboat for a couple of years, it was built / swapped by a boat builder and not sure of the format it was tuned in or deleted.
Plan on having it pro tuned just want to make sure the stuffs right before I waste someone's time airboat new.hpt boat run 3.hpl

Try this
airboat new - cringer.hpt

[Joen]

Cringer Thanks for that change but that still is not working, I made a new run to show I have movement of the petal but the TB is not responding after the engine starts, I'm not really sure what would have changed with a timing, airflow, idle correction. First Run 2.hpl

[RDF1]

Yea i see after engine is running its ignoring pedal.

Here is Diag for P0068 that its throwing.



P0068



DTC P0068 or P0121

Diagnostic Instructions

* Perform the Diagnostic System Check - Vehicle (Diagnostic System Check - Vehicle) prior to using this diagnostic procedure.
* Review Strategy Based Diagnosis (Strategy Based Diagnosis) for an overview of the diagnostic approach.
* Diagnostic Procedure Instructions (Diagnostic Procedure Instructions)provides an overview of each diagnostic category.

DTC Descriptors
DTC P0068
- Throttle Body Airflow Performance

DTC P0121
- Throttle Position (TP) Sensor 1 Performance

Circuit/System Description

The engine control module (ECM) uses the following information to calculate an expected airflow rate:

* The throttle position (TP)
* The barometric pressure (BARO)
* The manifold absolute pressure (MAP)
* The intake air temperature (IAT)
* The engine RPM

Conditions for Running the DTC

P0068
* DTCs P0641, P0651, P1516, P2101, P2119, P2176 are not set.
* The engine is running.
* DTC P0068 run continuously when the above conditions are met.

P0121
* DTCs P0102, P0103, P0107, P0108, P0112, P0113, P0116, P0117, P0118, P0128, P0315, P0335, P0336 are not set.
* The engine speed is more than 450 RPM.
* DTC P0121 run continuously when the above conditions are met.

Conditions for Setting the DTC

P0068

The ECM detects that the throttle position and the indicated engine load do not correspond with the expected load and throttle position for less than 1 second.

P0121

The predicted air flow and the predicted MAP combined are outside a calibrated range for more than 3 seconds.

Action Taken When the DTC Sets

P0068
* DTC P0068 is a Type A DTC.
* The control module commands the throttle actuator control (TAC) system to operate in the Reduced Engine Power mode.
* A message center or an indicator displays Reduced Engine Power.
* Under certain conditions the control module commands the engine OFF.

P0121

DTC P0121 is a Type B DTC.

Conditions for Clearing the MIL/DTC

* DTC P0068 is a Type A DTC.
* DTC P0121 is a Type B DTC.

Reference Information
Schematic Reference

Engine Controls Schematics ([1][2]Electrical Diagrams)
Connector End View Reference

Component Connector End Views (Connector Views)
Electrical Information Reference

* Circuit Testing (Circuit Testing)
* Connector Repairs (Connector Repairs)
* Testing for Intermittent Conditions and Poor Connections (Testing for Intermittent Conditions and Poor Connections)
* Wiring Repairs (Wiring Repairs)

DTC Type Reference

Powertrain Diagnostic Trouble Code (DTC) Type Definitions (Powertrain Diagnostic Trouble Code (DTC) Type Definitions)
Scan Tool Reference

Control Module References (Programming and Relearning)for scan tool information

Circuit/System Testing

1. Inspect for the following conditions:

* Vacuum hoses for splits, kinks, and proper connections as shown on Vehicle Emission Control Information label
* Inspect thoroughly for any type of leak or restriction
* Air leaks at throttle body mounting area and intake manifold sealing surfaces
* Throttle body for dirt, debris, and coking-Refer to Throttle Body Cleaning (Procedures).

2. Allow the engine to reach operating temperature. Observe the MAP Sensor Voltage parameter with a scan tool. Voltage should be more than 0.8 volt and less than 4 volts.

• If more than 4 volts or less than 0.8 volt, refer to DTC P0106 (P0106).

3. Idle the engine. Observe the MAP Sensor kPa parameter with a scan tool. Increase the engine speed slowly and then back to idle. The MAP sensor kPa should change smoothly and gradually as engine speed is increased and returned to idle.

• If the MAP sensor kPa does not change, refer to DTC P0106 (P0106).

4. Take a snapshot of the engine data list while performing the actions listed below. The mass air flow (MAF) sensor g/s should change smoothly and gradually as the engine speed is increased and is returned to idle.

* Idle the engine.
* Increase the engine speed slowly to 3,000 RPM, then back to idle.
* Exit from the snapshot and review the data.
* Observe the Mass Air Flow (MAF) Sensor parameter frame by frame with a scan tool. The MAF sensor g/s should change smoothly and gradually as the engine speed is increased and is returned to idle.

• If the MAF sensor g/s does not change smoothly and gradually as the engine speed is increased and is returned to idle, refer to DTC P0101 or P1101 (Without Heavy Duty L96) (P0101).

5. Inspect the throttle body for the following conditions:

* Loose or damaged throttle blade
* Broken throttle shaft
* Any throttle body damage

• If any of these conditions exist, replace the throttle body assembly.

Repair Instructions

Perform the Diagnostic Repair Verification (Verification Tests) after completing the diagnostic procedure.

* Throttle Body Assembly Replacement (Removal and Replacement)
* Control Module References (Programming and Relearning)for ECM replacement, setup, and programming

[RDF1]

Also i see P0106 is being thrown.






DTC P0106

Diagnostic Instructions

* Perform the Diagnostic System Check - Vehicle (Diagnostic System Check - Vehicle) prior to using this diagnostic procedure.
* Review Strategy Based Diagnosis (Strategy Based Diagnosis) for an overview of the diagnostic approach.
* Diagnostic Procedure Instructions (Diagnostic Procedure Instructions) provides an overview of each diagnostic category.

DTC Descriptor
DTC P0106
- Manifold Absolute Pressure (MAP) Sensor Performance

Diagnostic Fault Information





Typical Scan Tool Data





Circuit Description

The intake flow rationality diagnostic provides the within-range rationality check for the mass air flow (MAF), manifold absolute pressure (MAP), and the throttle position (TP) sensors. This is an explicit model-based diagnostic containing 4 separate models for the intake system.

* The throttle model describes the flow through the throttle body and is used to estimate the MAF through the throttle body as a function of barometric pressure (BARO), TP, intake air temperature (IAT), and estimated MAP. The information from this model is displayed on the scan tool as the MAF Performance Test parameter.
* The first intake manifold model describes the intake manifold and is used to estimate MAP as a function of the MAF into the manifold from the throttle body and the MAF out of the manifold caused by engine pumping. The flow into the manifold from the throttle uses the MAF estimate calculated from the above throttle model. The information from this model is displayed on the scan tool as the MAP Performance Test 1 parameter.
* The second intake manifold model is identical to the first intake manifold model except that the MAF sensor measurement is used instead of the throttle model estimate for the throttle air input. The information from this model is displayed on the scan tool as the MAP Performance Test 2 parameter.
* The fourth model is created from the combination and additional calculations of the throttle model and the first intake manifold model. The information from this model is displayed on the scan tool as the TP Performance Test parameter.

The estimates of MAF and MAP obtained from this system of models and calculations are then compared to the actual measured values from the MAF, MAP, and the TP sensors and to each other to determine the appropriate DTC to fail. The following table illustrates the possible failure combinations and the resulting DTC or DTCs.





Conditions for Running the DTC

* DTCs P0102, P0103, P0107, P0108, P0112, P0113, P0116, P0117, P0118, P0128, P0335, P0336 are not set.
* The engine is running.
* The IAT Sensor parameter is between -7 and +125?C (+19 and 257?F).
* The ECT Sensor parameter is between 70-125?C (158-257?F).
* This DTC runs continuously when the above conditions are met.

Conditions for Setting the DTC

The engine control module (ECM) detects that the MAP sensor pressure is not within range of the calculated pressure that is derived from the system of models for more than 0.5 second.

Action Taken When the DTC Sets

DTC P0106 is a Type B DTC.

Conditions for Clearing the MIL/DTC

DTC P0106 is a Type B DTC.

Diagnostic Aids

Note: Verify that the engine is in good mechanical condition before continuing with this diagnostic.

* A skewed or stuck engine coolant temperature (ECT) or IAT sensor will cause the calculated models to be inaccurate and may cause this DTC to run when it should not. Refer to Temperature Versus Resistance (Temperature Versus Resistance).
* The BARO that is used by the ECM to calculate the air flow models is initially based on the MAP sensor at ignition ON. When the engine is running, the ECM will continually update the BARO value near wide open throttle using the MAP sensor and a calculation. A skewed MAP sensor will cause the BARO value to be inaccurate. Use the scan tool and compare the BARO parameter at ignition ON to the Altitude vs. Barometric Pressure Table. Refer to Altitude Versus Barometric Pressure (Altitude Versus Barometric Pressure).
* A skewed MAP sensor will also cause the first and second intake manifold models to disagree with the actual MAP sensor measurements. Use the scan tool and compare the MAP Sensor parameter to a known good vehicle, under various operating conditions.
* Inspect for the following conditions:

- Incorrect CAM timing-Refer to Timing Chain, Crankshaft Sprocket, Camshaft Position Actuator, and Solenoid Valve Replacement (Service and Repair) for the correct timing.
- Worn piston rings-Refer to Engine Compression Test (Testing and Inspection).

Reference Information
Schematic Reference

Engine Controls Schematics ([1][2]Electrical Diagrams)
Connector End View Reference

Component Connector End Views (Connector Views)
Electrical Information Reference

* Circuit Testing (Circuit Testing)
* Connector Repairs (Connector Repairs)
* Testing for Intermittent Conditions and Poor Connections (Testing for Intermittent Conditions and Poor Connections)
* Wiring Repairs (Wiring Repairs)

DTC Type Reference

Powertrain Diagnostic Trouble Code (DTC) Type Definitions (Powertrain Diagnostic Trouble Code (DTC) Type Definitions)
Scan Tool Reference

Control Module References (Programming and Relearning) for scan tool information
Special Tools

* J-35555 Metal Mityvac
* J-23738-A Mityvac

Circuit/System Verification

1. If DTC P0641 or P0651 are set, refer to DTC P0641 or P0651 (ECM) (P0641).
2. Verify that restrictions do not exist in the exhaust system. Refer to Restricted Exhaust (Restricted Exhaust).
3. Verify that the engine is in good mechanical condition. Refer to Symptoms - Engine Mechanical (Symptoms - Engine Mechanical) for the 4.8L, 5.3L, 6.0L and 6.2L engine.
4. Ignition OFF for 90 seconds, determine the current vehicle testing altitude. Ignition ON, observe the scan tool BARO Sensor parameter. Compare the parameter to the Altitude Versus Barometric Pressure (Altitude Versus Barometric Pressure) table. The BARO sensor pressure parameter should be within the specified range indicated in the table.
5. A skewed MAP sensor will also cause the first and second intake manifold models to disagree with the actual MAP sensor measurements. Use the scan tool and compare the MAP Sensor parameter to a known good vehicle under various operating conditions. The readings should be within 3 kPa of the known good vehicle.
6. Ignition ON, observe the scan tool MAP sensor parameter. Start the engine. The MAP Sensor parameter should change.

• If the vehicle passes the Circuit System Verification Test, operate the vehicle within the Conditions for Running the DTC. You may also operate the vehicle within the conditions that are captured in the Freeze Frame/Failure Records list.

Circuit/System Testing

Important: All electrical components and accessories must be turned OFF and allowed to power down.


1. Verify the integrity of the air induction system by inspecting for the following conditions:

* Any damaged components
* Loose or improper installation
* Improperly routed vacuum hoses
* Any vacuum leak
* Any type of restriction
* MAP sensor seal that is missing or damaged

2. Verify that restrictions do not exist in the MAP sensor vacuum source.
3. Verify that restrictions do not exist in the exhaust system. Refer to Restricted Exhaust (Restricted Exhaust).
4. Ignition OFF, disconnect the MAP harness connector at the MAP sensor.
5. Ignition OFF for 90 seconds, test for less than 5 ohms between the low reference circuit terminal A and ground.

• If greater than the specified value, test the low reference circuit for an open/high resistance. If the circuit tests normal, replace the ECM.

6. Ignition ON, test for 4.8-5.2 V between the 5 V reference circuit terminal C and ground.

• If less than the specified range, test the 5 V reference circuit for a short to ground or an open/high resistance. If the circuit tests normal, replace the ECM.
• If greater than the specified range, test the 5 V reference circuit for a short to voltage. If the circuit tests normal, replace the ECM.

7. Verify the scan tool MAP Sensor parameter is less than 12 kPa.

• If greater than the specified range, test the signal circuit for a short to voltage. If the circuit tests normal, replace the ECM.

8. Install a 3 A fused jumper wire between the signal circuit terminal B and the 5 V reference circuit terminal C. Verify the scan tool MAP Sensor parameter is greater than 103 kPa.

• If less than the specified range, test the signal circuit terminal B for a short to ground or an open/high resistance. If the circuit tests normal, replace the ECM.

9. If all circuits test normal, test or replace the MAP sensor.

Component Testing

Important: You must perform the Circuit/System Testing in order to verify the integrity of the MAP sensor circuits before proceeding with the Component Testing.


Skewed Sensor Test
1. Using the following steps and referencing the table below will determine if the MAP sensor is skewed.
2. Ignition ON, engine OFF, observe the MAP sensor scan tool parameter.
3. Use the observed MAP Sensor Scan Tool parameter that is closest to a value that is indicated in the first column.
4. Using the J-23738-A or the J-35555 to apply 5 in Hg of vacuum to the MAP sensor, the parameter in the first column should decrease by 17 kPa. The acceptable range is indicated in the second column.
5. Using the J-23738-A or the J-35555 to apply 10 in Hg of vacuum to the MAP sensor, the parameter in the first column should decrease by 34 kPa. The acceptable range is indicated in the third column.





Erratic Signal Test
1. Ignition OFF, remove the MAP sensor.
2. Install a 3 A fused jumper wire between the 5 V reference circuit terminal C and the corresponding terminal of the MAP sensor.
3. Install a jumper wire between the low reference terminal A of the MAP sensor and ground.
4. Install a jumper wire at terminal B of the MAP sensor.
5. Connect a DMM between the jumper wire from the terminal B of the MAP sensor and ground.
6. Ignition ON, with the J-23738-A or J-35555 , slowly apply vacuum to the sensor while observing the voltage on the DMM. The voltage should vary between 4.9-0.2 V without any spikes or dropouts.

• If the voltage is erratic, replace the MAP sensor.

Repair Instructions

Perform the Diagnostic Repair Verification (Verification Tests) after completing the diagnostic procedure.

* Manifold Absolute Pressure Sensor Replacement (Service and Repair)
* Control Module References (Programming and Relearning) for ECM replacement, setup, and programming

[Joen]

Thanks RDF1 Now things are making sense, I have always had some of the codes, just now it is sending it into low power mode, funny I have run this for a couple of years now with no performance issues, thinking this was the way they set it up the swap to run, I have tried to replace the maf in the past just to see if things would change (codes), I guess it looks like I'm chasing a preexisting condition thinking it was in the change I did recently. THANKS FOR YOUR TIME, GUYS

[Cringer]

All those codes did not exist in the previous log file. Let's try this one as a test. Flash it and then clear the codes and try again. I am hoping this clears the P0068 code and gets your pedal back.
airboat new - cringer2.hpt

[Alvin]

P0106 and P0068 codes are popping up because this is cammed.

You can disable it in the airflow section of the diagnostic tab.


Basically its assuming that if MAP is actually higher than OEM, airflow must be up, but because it's a cammed engine now it's actually less.. airflow mismatch between that and backup gut checks.. = those codes.

[edcmat-l1]

Yeah those codes have nothing to do with it not having pedal response. Need to log the accelerator pedal position. The one you're logging now isn't the right pid.

Looks dead lean also. That may be some of the problem.

[Joen]

All I have to say is wow, the support you guys give in amazing, I spent most of my evening chasing wiring and values, not knowing what was cut up in the original harness, and not finding much without knowing the specs the ecm gives out, (nothing shorted, terminals clean voltages right, grounds good) not happy with the ecm harness locks just floating but for now it will have to do, thanks again Cringer that seems to have worked, I didn't have time to run it last night to see if it holds code free on with petal movement, but it did not throw it in to power reduction with short easy hits of throttle, will do more today and try to get a run on it. Thanks

[Cringer]

That is great to hear! Good luck!