Pulling time on WOT but wideband shows neither too rich or lean

[toonwarrior]

Well I did omit one detail that would make you guys facepalm.

I am getting the intermittent p0327 code, but the way it comes on in is quite inconsistent, I figured hey if I cleared the code, and it's reading knock then it works? Like yesterday I drove the for a good 2 hours here and there without the light popping up and hasn't come up since

But yea that's kind of a dumb assumption since it indicates that something is wrong.

Truth is the knock sensors are at the bottom of the block and removing them equates to a bunch of coolant drainage, just messy so I've been trying to avoid the scenario. And after reading stories of guys swapping sensors like cheese with no avail I'm afraid to touch it.

Will obviously check the connector using the steps from the FSM first but I'll just try the burst knock update, take the car out today, see what happens but I'm guessing it's going to still read it which makes me face the inevitable.

[Alvin]

I am getting the intermittent p0327 code,

Did I call it or what...

[toonwarrior]

In all fairness I should've mentioned that first and foremost but thank you.

The injector information is also very helpful so I essentially have two things to sort out.

[toonwarrior]

Well wish me luck on the fuel injector stuff

With the 12613412 injectors I would need the 551371 spacer from ICT billet

Length of the LS1 injector = 64mm (2.550")
Length of the l96 injector + spacer = 46mm (1.815") + 17.272mm(0.680") = 63.27mm (2.494")

So there is a slight variance but I'm assuming its negligible since its literally an adapter for the ls1 intakes, whether or not plugs and plays to the LT1 I will have to trust the process.

For some reason blindsquirrel your comments yesterday just went over my head, now that I've re-read them my responses were kinda dumb ��

injectorparts.PNG

[blindsquirrel]

The upper o-ring and clip will seat up in the rail, and the lower o-ring has probably .200"-.250" or more of up-down wiggle room between where the o-ring is fully into the manifold, and where the injector body bottoms out in the stepped hole. It's much more forgiving than you're imagining.

[toonwarrior]

Well I definitely over torqued the shnizzle out of the KR sensors to the point that I'm going to have to damage them to get them out, so I'll need to fix that with new KR sensors but the weather's been terrible so waiting for a good weekend for that.

In the meantime I disabled the DTC's just to drive normally, the car is pretty smooth, wideband readings look safe, and no long term trims over -10%. Will need to go do a longer drive however for better data.

I added some PIDs to monitor injector duty and O2s.

newpids.PNG

Once I get the L96 injector stuff then I can compare the logs to each other.

[SiriusC1024]

There's no kinda sorta about the torque value on those. If you want an accurate torque wrench without paying out the ass I recommend Tekton. Change the harness and rtv the seals while you're in there.

[toonwarrior]

I should mention that this is an lt1 so the KRs are at the bottom of the block so I assume when you say RTV the seals you're referring to the intake?

Yea it's a bit of a pain to torque there's not much space and I have to use a wobby socket to get to it, I don't know why I just tightened it as hard as I could when it clearly says only #15 pounds, I do have a tekton so when I re-do it I can do it properly.

[SiriusC1024]

Nope was talking LS lol sry.

[toonwarrior]

Okay so I think it's done, I got the new injectors in with the adapters, I put in the new connectors, I shifted the injectors by hand as much as I could when installed to make sure that there wasn't a chance of it dropping and causing a major leak/fire but doesn't seem like it can move enough to do that which is good.

PXL_20240330_165820295.jpg
PXL_20240330_174636496.MP.jpg

I roughly adjusted SD and MAF but really need to go through it again properly, just wanted to do a rough test drive, on the rich side for now but the car runs without stumbling and is smooth

24thrun.hpl

Next step is wire in the pro-link so I can log the wideband data directly into hp tuners, and fix the knock sensors and keep dialing in the tune.

If it weren't for my exhaust the car would feel pretty great as is but with it being a true dual with no cats dumped behind the axle, the way it puffs and putts out is so violent, not sure if that's just cause its facing straight towards the ground but I do have a proper system coming soon with hi-flow cats, x-pipe and that goes all the way out back so hopefully that solves that issue.

Can't believe I didn't log any injector data with stock lt1 injectors.... now i have nothing to compare to

And thank you blindsquirrel for the direction

[toonwarrior]

Here's a noob question,

I've tuned SD and MAF using the wideband gauge even though I haven't wired it in, for the most part it's close to the 14.7 stoic ratio during regular driving

But once I turn the fuel trims back on, it always ends up pulling 5-10% fuel putting the wideband in the mid 15s to 16s ratio range. I know I should be speaking in terms of lambda but brain is small.

My question is once I wire the wideband into HP tuners as a PID, does the tune start using the wideband data to adjust fueling or does it still use the narrowband?


I've attached the latest tune and run, if there's any missing PIDs that I need to add let me know, outside of the weird huge STFT spikes pulling like -25% fuel everything else seems decent? Not sure what's causing the spikes, seems to happen when i'm cruising at the 40kmh range, problem is when I go into SD or MAF using just the wideband everything seems happy. So if I adjust based on the narrowband trims it'll lean out the wideband readings more I assume, unless my understanding is wrong.

30thrun.hpl
basetunev2.30.hpt

I'll be wiring in the wideband to HP tuners tomorrow, (and no I haven't fixed the KRs yet so those are disabled still but it is on my list)

[SiriusC1024]

The ECU will never trim based off the wideband. Set PE MAP enable to 85kPa then re-tune it in CL. That's the solution.

https://forum.hptuners.com/showthrea...nd-vs-Wideband

[toonwarrior]

Okay so a bunch of reading for me to do.

But at a surface level how exactly does changing this help? From what I understand when I tune for MAF and SD I just keep it out of PE so I'm not dealing with any wonky data

[SiriusC1024]

Read the link and you'll understand the purpose of CL tuning.

You keep it out of OL in order to get any data at all. CL fuel trims are just that - CL. Set the enable to 85kPa in order to safely map as much as possible CL. Extrapolate the table out for the rest. Make sure wideband agrees up top with what you've extrapolated. Adjust as necessary.

Log B1S1 and B2S1 O2 voltages.

Set Fuel>Transient>Min Fuel Mg to 0.017 (this should've been done regardless of tuning method). See here where STFT's keep pulling trims during decel? Look at InjPW. What's happening is that Min Fuel Mg is a floor to minimum fueling that is more than what is required. STFT's can't pull fuel here, so they keep subtracting.
rich trims.png

[SiriusC1024]

It would also be smart to get the rest of the Fuel>Transient settings from a 5.7 Express Van file. Those tables compensate for intake port geometry - how much fuel sprayed onto the port walls and how it evaporates. Your current tune is based off cathedral port heads.

[toonwarrior]

Thank you I'll take a look and try the adjustments tomorrow

Just find it super odd that the none of the lt1 conversion threads using a gen 3 pcm never talk about adjusting these values when it seems pretty obvious that the base settings for an LS1 doesn't really apply properly to the LT1.

The two lt1 files I was provided with from other 24x conversions pretty much had all ls1 settings

Guess I didn't really think about it either until it was brought up in this thread

The help is appreciated greatly and hopefully the car gets dialed better and better so I can assist other lt1 newbs like me who do the conversion

[SiriusC1024]

It's a matter of being thorough. Sure, you can tune with the LS1 transient settings. Many stop there.

Same with spark settings. Express Van 5.7 from the repository as a basis. Combustion chamber geometry, bore, and rod ratio is different on an LS1.

[toonwarrior]

Just some copy pasta from the wiki, image is the base tune I downloaded from the repo
The Vortec 5700 L31 (VIN code "R") is a 5.7L V8 truck engine. It is Chevrolet's last production first-generation small-block. The cylinder heads feature combustion chambers and intake ports very similar to those of the LT1 V8, but lacking the LT1's reverse-flow cooling and higher compression.

express.PNG


I copied over the fuel transient settings from the 5.7L express van file except for the min fuel mg which I've set to 0.017

In terms of spark settings, the base tune I have is fairly different from the LS1 settings already so not sure exactly what I should be adjusting here so for the meantime I'll keep it as is until I learn more.


I'm going to load these settings, add in the missing PIDs and then take a drive on the same tune without modifying the VE/MAF so I get a clean A to B test and see how it differs from the datalog I just posted recently. Then go back and start tuning VE/MAF with CL on.

basetunev2.31.hpt

[SiriusC1024]

Nevermind about the Express spark anyway. It's pretty neutered. When you get VE and MAF tuned with CL that'll mean an accurate relationship can be made between MAP and Cylinder Airmass (even if airmass is derived from MAF). This will allow you to restore the stock LT1 timing table.
https://forum.hptuners.com/showthrea...-timing-tables

As you can see, the spark in your current tune is conservative.

Which ignition coils are you using?

[toonwarrior]

19005218 Truck Coils

Once I'm confident in the tune I'll start adjusting for timing since I actually haven't gone and learned how to do that yet properly.

Based on that thread and looking at the log my cruise / WOT timing is like 10 degrees off so definitely some pep missing from the car I would assume once I start adding it in.