Trying simultaneous maf/ve.... I think I missed something

[bug]

2011 escalade 6.2
Dod/vvt delete
Cat delete
Jba shorty headers
Stock maf
Tick performance tow max stg2 cam
215/226 | .603?/.605? | LSA112+3

Tried doing simultaneous adjustments to maf/vve and found that on my first log, adjustments were in the 20% range. Also, at the end of the log, I let it idle in park and saw my fuel trims skyrocket. It seems to be on the right track when driving, so I'm not sure why it's doing so unless I missed a table, but I'm pretty sure I got them all.

Thanks in advance, guys

[bug]

Here's a log, current tune, and as read with dod/vvt taken out.

Thanks

[dassaur]

I'm a newbie myself but you need to be logging fuel trim cell to filter out junk data and use cringer's formulas as a filter in the tables - but they will only work with fuel trim cell.
The thread has the formulas in the front page:
https://forum.hptuners.com/showthrea...-the-Same-Time

The parameter 6310 in the formulas refers to the fuel trim cell.

[LS ROB]

Looked lean. Did some thangs...

big bad caddy.hpt

[bug]

Dassaur, thanks for the heads up. I definitely didn't have fuel trim cell logged. It's now in my channels. I took another log to see if things ran any different. Here's a new log with fuel trim cell logged

Ls rob, I'll load and get a log tomorrow morning, any chance you could give me a brief rundown of changes made?

Thanks again fellas

[dassaur]

Your log looks a lot nicer than the first one with the filters applied. VVE table is very rich at idle and low load cruising, and lean at high load. With the changes re: previous post, compare it with the vcm editor comparison log (open your current tune, then compare-> open the one from LS Rob, then view comparison log.

[Alvin]

IMHO. This is such a easy setup to purposefully fail the maf. tune VVE and then reenable maf.


I'm not a fan of backing out VVE from MAF. Especially on something like this.. Some of the odd GEN 5 stuff that won't work in SD OK... but this will work no problem in strictly SD.

[LS ROB]

Ls rob, I'll load and get a log tomorrow morning, any chance you could give me a brief rundown of changes made?

Tweaked MAF and VVE.

[bug]

Alvin, you think? I honestly figured that this truck didn't like no maf because when I was getting it squared away I found it would only run with the stock maf. I tried to install an ls7 style card sensor in a4" tube with a honeycomb straightener and the truck didn't like it at all.

[gtstorey]

Alvin, you think? I honestly figured that this truck didn't like no maf because when I was getting it squared away I found it would only run with the stock maf. I tried to install an ls7 style card sensor in a4" tube with a honeycomb straightener and the truck didn't like it at all.

Did you try tuning it to match the new components or just stick them in and expect it to run?

[bug]

Rob, new maf and ve values loaded in first scan. Truck did not like it at all, went super lean and bucked during idle. Did I mess something up? tune is attached with log.

Gtstorey, I suppose I just plugged them in hoping I could get air flow numbers and go from there, but it wouldn't run at all with the other maf. Is there some scaling I have to do for the card style maf? I repinned the harness to corresponding wire locations for new maf.

Current tune and log also attached


Thanks

[blindsquirrel]

The MAF table is not about the MAF sensor, you can't just take a sensor from some other different car/truck and stick it in and copy over that other MAF table from the other file. The MAF sensor is measuring air speed inside the tubing, then converting that speed measurement to an air flow volume. So the MAF table is way more about the size of the tubing, and sensor location, and location/number of bends in the tube, and the filter, and airbox. Just about nothing to do with the sensor itself or any part of the engine. Different style sensors will output a different frequency at the exact same airspeed, but that's not something that can be copied from somewhere else, because it's about impossible to change one sensor for a different style one without also changing something, somewhere, about the shape/size/etc. of the tubing.

[bug]

Ok, with that being said, I know there are ways to adapt the larger tube and sensor to other vehicles, ie. The g8 gxp I have, ls3 originally had stock sensor, which now has the card style. I did not do the tune for that car, so I'm not sure what got changed. I've looked for a definitive way to install, but obviously I'm lacking the proper info.

I can say that the entire intake tract is new 4" aluminum tube, with only the stock air box and integral sensor housing being original. The truck runs "well" so to speak, at least driving normally.

Is there a rescaling process for this, or did i just waste money on parts?

[smokeshow]

Multiplying the table by the ratio of the cross sectional areas between the new and old tubes works well to get started..

[LS ROB]

Rob, new maf and ve values loaded in first scan. Truck did not like it at all, went super lean and bucked during idle. Did I mess something up? tune is attached with log.
Thanks

Yeah.. the tune I posted should have been flashed in with no other changes. Viewing as comparison shows you or someone changed multiple tables; spark, braf, idle speed and a whole bunch more. I'd suggest going back to your original tune and start with VVE and MAF. With those dialed in, minimal changes will be needed elsewhere.

[bug]

Smokeshow, you saying this?
4/3.5=1.143
Multiply entire MAF table by 1.143

[bug]

I had been using, what I thought at least was right, were steps provided by a few others on here to get it to idle and drive smoothly. The changes on the tune that were made were startup and idle. I never actually fired it with the tune entirely stock after installing the cam.

Thanks for your input andpatience folks, much appreciated

[gtstorey]

Smokeshow, you saying this?
4/3.5=1.143
Multiply entire MAF table by 1.143

Multiply by area ratio not diameter. (pie are square).

edit: (pie are round?)

edit: (pi x radius x radius)

[Alvin]

For tuning in a drastically different MAF use dynamic airflow or VE airflow (after VVE is tuned well) to rough in the MAF table but you are going to have to retune. Just clocking a LS7 style MAF is enough to make them drastically off. How it's mounted.. if a fan is blowing on the filter, etc.. can all mess up how they read.

When dialing in a MAF that is way far out.. it is helpful to temporarily disable P0101 diagnostics ONLY

[blindsquirrel]

Just clocking a LS7 style MAF is enough to make them drastically off. How it's mounted.. if a fan is blowing on the filter, etc.. can all mess up how they read.

Condition
Some customers may comment that the check engine light is on.
A scan tool may reveal DTCs P0171 and/or P0174 set in history or current. If the air flow to the air intake/air cleaner assembly is disturbed, the DTCs may be induced.

Cause
This condition may be caused by a gap between the upper radiator air baffle and the bumper beam combined with some beam holes. The gap and holes may cause an air flow disturbance to the air intake/air cleaner assembly. Refer to the pictures below for further clarification.

Attachment 150740