2001 Procharged Trans Am - Tune Check

[Evil Phoenix]

Hey Everyone -

I purchased a 2001 Trans Am and I hooked up my Prolink cable and HP Tuners to do some data logging. I have AEM Wideband on CH2 and AEM fuel pressure on ch 1 I wish I could have the AEM boost on a 3rd channel. I am going to have to get a new wideband to use CAN so I can have all three captured through the prolink cable

I was just looking in to drivability because if I have the heater on and come to a stop the car wants to die. Also I am watching the wideband and thought I was a little lean.

Attached is my as found file and a few rides. I just wanted to update the VE Tables but I am new to HP Tuners. I have only done NA MAF, SD and a little spark.

This car has a laundry list of items done and to get the jist its as follows :

ECU runs custom 3bar OS RTT
Procharged LS1 with 2 bar map from cobalt SS
LS6 intake, 1 7/8" primary headers with ORY, Tick Performance Blower cam stage 2 (227/243 .625/.615 LSA 115+4) 243 heads Port and Polished, 85lb injectors, 450lph pump with return, boost referenced fuel pressure regulator (return style system) and so on.

I can share more if you have questions or I left out something important.

Also another thing, when I use Barometric pressure vs map pressure for my boost, it never gets over .5 or .6psi of boost. Do I have something wrong?

Thank you so much in advance

2001 Trans Am - Procharged First Step.hpt
ride to Legit street Show.hpl
quick save 10-25.hpl
Fourth Ride - 10-25-24 at 750.hpl

[blindsquirrel]

You are logging "Intake Manifold Absolute Pressure (SAE)" which only reads to 105.0 kPa. You have to delete that and use the one that matches the new OS.

Sure would love to know who is telling people to do this, because it keeps happening...
screenshot.04-11-2024 19.26.34.png

This is not plausible. It's just a straight interpolated line between 0.00 - 0.61, and based on that I'd assume that 0.00 value is just pulled out of somebody's ass.
screenshot.04-11-2024 19.30.14.png
Also would make me extremely suspicious of the other data provided, and if the data is, um, 'creatively generated', what other shortcuts did they take? Whose injectors are they, do you have anything other than "85lb injectors"?

[Evil Phoenix]

So the car came to me tuned by someone that has a large online presence for the F-Body. Or it's claimed to have been tuned by him.

It is speed density only. There is no MAF

I am sorry I don't know what you mean ?interpolated between 0.00 - 0.61? what part of the tune am I looking at.

I have emailed him asking for support and asking for help with a possible upgrade twice with no reply.

The injectors are from Fuel Injector Clinic. I have the box, card and data sheet along with the receipt for them.

What other data about the car or the tune can I provide.

I appreciate your help.

[blindsquirrel]

In the screenshot, the title bar says "[ECM] 12314 - Short Pulse Adder". Open your tune file, hit CTRL+N (or Edit > Navigator). In that search box, type in '12314', or 'pulse', or anything you might be looking for. If you don't recognize that table how have you compared the tune file to the supplied datasheet, enough to claim that it's all been set up correctly? Post the datasheet.

Speed density requires either/both P0102 & P0103 to be Current. It can't do that if the codes are No Error or No MIL. Your logs have no P0102/P0103 in them (at the bottom of the channel list, 'Details' tab).

[blindsquirrel]

Injector data is also not set up for a referenced regulator. The flow rate & offset tables changing from left to right is for a non-referenced/returnless system. Referenced/return has all the columns all the way across the same as the 0 kPa VAC column.

[Evil Phoenix]

In the screenshot, the title bar says "[ECM] 12314 - Short Pulse Adder". Open your tune file, hit CTRL+N (or Edit > Navigator). In that search box, type in '12314', or 'pulse', or anything you might be looking for. If you don't recognize that table how have you compared the tune file to the supplied datasheet, enough to claim that it's all been set up correctly? Post the datasheet.

Speed density requires either/both P0102 & P0103 to be Current. It can't do that if the codes are No Error or No MIL. Your logs have no P0102/P0103 in them (at the bottom of the channel list, 'Details' tab).

I am not saying it has been setup correctly. quite the contrary I am asking for multiple sets of eyes. I am not saying its correct.

I am just stating that I know it has the Fuel Injector Clinic injectors that are 775CC / 85lb injectors and I happen to have the data sheet. Also when I try to enter in the exact numbers from the data sheet HP Tuners "adjusts" the value to something just slightly different. IDK why.

This car is new to me and tuned before my ownership. I have attached the data for the injectors here

FICLINIC_775H_GMDATA_HPTUNERS_WEBSITE (1).xlsx

[blindsquirrel]

The cells in all the tables have a minimum increment, it will round anything you put in to the nearest allowed number. This is completely normal.

You CAN'T paste in the full data in that sheet as-is, the full tables are set up for a returnless system. For a referenced/return, use only the "0 kPa" column, and paste that into every column all the way across. For both Injector Flow Rate and Offset vs Volts vs VAC.

[Evil Phoenix]

So then the person who did this tune, knowing all of this and presumably receiving logs to make changes did all of this wrong?

What else should I be looking at?

I cant get new data logs driving until thursday or friday. Its raining and crappy here for a while. This is not a daily, just supposed to be a fun car.

Does this look correct based on what you're telling me?

2001 Trans Am - Updated Injector Data.hpt

[Evil Phoenix]

I have also noticed that the LTFT are off. Should those be disabled?

[blindsquirrel]

LTFT depends on how it runs, big cams sometimes freak them out. If it'll work right with them on there's no reason to turn LT off.

What's your base fuel pressure (vacuum reference hose removed/plugged for testing)?

Injector data looks OK, assuming their sheet is accurate. I don't know if they generate those themselves or farm it out to someone reputable.

Haven't seen any feedback on these yet, so just to restate:
- change P0101/P0102/P0103 to MIL On First Error
- do not use the 1-bar MAP channel in your logs, you must use the 2-bar-specific channel with a 2-bar custom OS, 3-bar with 3-bar OS, etc. This is why you aren't reading any MAP higher than 105. If your brain is stuck in the past and doesn't understand the MAP's absolute numbers and you really really need a 'boost' PID, you will need to change the setup for that math to use the new MAP channel.

[abc]

Wouldn't a reputable tuner know the VE is unrealistic in the boosted area? As of now you don't know how much boost it makes, but when you get your PID's correct and fuel system digitally correct, I would sneak up on the boost 500 to 1000 rpm at a time and watch/correct your AFR/VE in the boosted area. Who knows right now, you may not be making more than 7 or 8 psi of boost, which is what I'm guessing based on the VE table.

[Evil Phoenix]

As janky as the tune may be, this car has run like this with the previous owner for at minimum of 2 years and 3,000 miles.

When you put your foot in it the car runs great under boost.

The reason I hooked the car up and added my Fuel pressure and wideband was because I was having issues of the car stalling when I have the heat on and a couple other drivability issues.

As for your questions I?ll have to get you answers after work but I appreciate your time

[blindsquirrel]

Are you only looking for affirmation that what's already there is good enough, or am I imagining things (entirely possible)? It seems like I keep hearing reasons for why it's okay - it was done by a respected tuner, it runs really good, etc.

[Evil Phoenix]

Are you only looking for affirmation that what's already there is good enough, or am I imagining things (entirely possible)? It seems like I keep hearing reasons for why it's okay - it was done by a respected tuner, it runs really good, etc.

Not at all. I?m not impressed. I?m not challenging you on anything. I don?t know why you?re reading it that way.

This was reported to be a PatG tune and maybe it is but from what I?ve read they appear to be canned tunes plugged in where one size fits all but specific to none.

I like to understand and take in what I?m being told. So I am looking at what?s being said and look at the data or tune.

I?m confident you?re correct, certainly you see things I don?t because I am brand new. But if I am ever going to learn to do this or see this I?m trying to follow in along and notice what you?re saying.

I hooked up to the car to do some logging. I am inexperienced so I didn?t know that there was a different intake manifold pressure to monitor from SAE. The errors in the log are my inexperienced, hence the questions.

I do want to understand why I need a SES light for 101, 102 & 103 in order to properly be in SD mode. The MAF appears to be failed which defaults to SD, right or am I totally missing something.

Again. I am not telling you I know more or this is the best tune ever. I am trying to understand what is wrong so I can learn to be confident on my own.

Thanks

[Evil Phoenix]

Wouldn't a reputable tuner know the VE is unrealistic in the boosted area? As of now you don't know how much boost it makes, but when you get your PID's correct and fuel system digitally correct, I would sneak up on the boost 500 to 1000 rpm at a time and watch/correct your AFR/VE in the boosted area. Who knows right now, you may not be making more than 7 or 8 psi of boost, which is what I'm guessing based on the VE table.

According to the boost gauge it hits 100lbs about 6200/6500 RPM. Thankfully being Procharged the boost is linear so that makes it more predictable, right?

[Evil Phoenix]

10 lbs. ten. Not 100

[Alvin]

Boost enrichment is pretty damn lean. I'd be worried about it commanding a ~ 12.5 AFR under boost.

[blindsquirrel]

The MAF is not failed unless it's got a current P0102 and/or P0103, and it can't set those codes if they're No MIL or No Error. They have to be able to show up as current codes for it to be in SD. One or both of those codes is what tells the PCM to not use any of the MAF stuff and fall back to SD.

There's also a Mass Airflow Sensor State flag you can log that shows in real time if it's failed. Or just set the codes to MIL On First Error like it's supposed to be and forget about it.

[abc]

According to the boost gauge it hits 100lbs about 6200/6500 RPM. Thankfully being Procharged the boost is linear so that makes it more predictable, right?

It's not about being predictable. My statement is more about you learning about what the VE table should look like when things are done properly. Having volumetric efficient (VE) numbers significantly above 1 (100 percent) indicate issues from things like fueling issues, such as the fuel psi is too low and to make up for it, someone has raised the VE numbers. It really depends on how much time you want to spend with this as a hobby, you can slow play it and keep reading on this forum, search the web for insite, or pay a pro, either way this site is here to help.

As far as putting it in SD properly, you also leave the SES light box unchecked. Along with selecting MIL on first error, by not check marking the SES box, you will not have a visible check engine light.

[Alvin]

It's quite alright for this to have over 100% VE. It happens in NA engines also.. When you see like 130% it's likely compensating for falling fuel pressure or something.

This one was probably extrapolated out in boost numbers he can't hit right now anyway.