LLT fueling help

[michaelkrusmark]

hi i have a 2010 camaro 3.6L with a volant cold air intake, solar performance ported throttle body, bbk long tube headers, lfx ported intake manifold. im wanting to tune in fueling but i cant find out how to disable closed loop so i can run the values off the widebands. i have plx widebands in both banks.

every other ecu and car ive tuned has had a coolant temp for closed loop but this ecu doesnt seem to have one. also for Kr tuning after fuel tuning this doesnt have 1 base igntion base it has 4 with relations to the cam phasing. am i supposed to update all 4 maps with kr adjustments or is there another table im not seeing to do base igniton map tuning

tune file is attached

2010 camaro 3.6L headers,backo2delete,catdelete.hpt

[blacksaleen9]

I can't offer much help but I do have a couple suggestions.. I've messed with the LLT/E69 combo in GMC Acadia's (as well as E39 LLT/LFX) and the only reason I was able to get anywhere is because my 09 cobalt ss uses the E69. As you're likely realizing the E69 isn't as straightforward as some other GM ecu's and from what I've seen the info on v6 E69 is limited. The tuning process and table usage however won't be any different than how the ecotecs utilize them, and I'd search out the cobalt/ecotec (08-10 LNF) for finding e69 info. The cobalts are a little easier because the ecu has a wideband from the factory, but the tuning process will be the same you'll just need to log your externals.

TLDR - Check out the LNF info/guides for e69 tuning info and that should get help answer a lot of questions.

[michaelkrusmark]

i did research last night on your comment. thank you very much for that needed info. i am now following the lnf guys way of tuning and it is working great. i havent however found anything to do with tuning timing with the multiple timing tables. do u have any insight on tuning the timing?

[KillboyPowerhead]

Can you log "target" and "reference" positions of the camshafts? Did a few Google/HP Tuners forum searches and can't find any discussion of these terms - has seriously no one talked about these before? lol. Not sure what they mean. I'd think "target" means commanded position (as per the Warm tables), and "reference" means...? Home position? And I'm guessing Load would be equivalent to cylinder airmass? But it terms of percent, of either max possible airflow/airmass, or throttle position...

[blacksaleen9]

i did research last night on your comment. thank you very much for that needed info. i am now following the lnf guys way of tuning and it is working great. i havent however found anything to do with tuning timing with the multiple timing tables. do u have any insight on tuning the timing?

It took me a bit to understand what they were saying, but this thread is prob the best explanation. https://forum.hptuners.com/showthrea...-tables-how-to

It boils down to the ecu getting a torque request (throttle pedal), you've got multiple methods to achieve that torque request, timing, air, spark, and fuel. Once you understand the op spark tables it'll completely change how the car feels, because you can change how much of an effect the timing has on the overall torque request by changing the difference between the op spark and main spark table

You want to make all of the base spark tables to match, and you want all the MBT tables to match. The MBT table - the base table gives you the "urgency" value. The link above does a much better job explaining, and if you play around with it a bit you'll start to see how it effects the car.

One thing I forgot to mention was the OEM tables aren't very smooth, and this ECU will use kr as a catch all when it's pissed about anything... so what you would traditionally do for using KR to mod the spark table doesn't always hold true with this ECU. On my LNF one of the first things I did was go through and hand smooth all the tables and it really helped with driveability and helped with phantom kr. Modding the "urgency" number will def impact kr if you get too aggressive.

[blacksaleen9]

Can you log "target" and "reference" positions of the camshafts? Did a few Google/HP Tuners forum searches and can't find any discussion of these terms - has seriously no one talked about these before? lol. Not sure what they mean. I'd think "target" means commanded position (as per the Warm tables), and "reference" means...? Home position? And I'm guessing Load would be equivalent to cylinder airmass? But it terms of percent, of either max possible airflow/airmass, or throttle position...

Here's some good general info on the e69 (and vvt in general) with regards to cam tables:

https://forum.hptuners.com/showthrea...jection-Tables
https://forum.hptuners.com/showthrea...uot-cam-timing

Take note that the e69 cam angle values in the scanner aren't the true angle of the cams, and you have to create math channels for each in order to get their true angle in the scanner.

You'll see how the oem changes the overlap at cruise to reduce pumping losses and make the engine more efficient at the expense of torque. Depending on what you want out of the car you can play around with the midrange to get some more torque at the expense of fuel economy.

[blacksaleen9]

Forgot one.. https://forum.hptuners.com/showthrea...357-LNF-Guides

[KillboyPowerhead]

Making the four main spark tables all the same makes sense to me. I'm tuning an E39A (2015 Camaro V6) and I have a "high octane" spark table, and there's also a spark adder table for VVT, but both tables are RPM vs. cylinder airmass so I never understood the need for the VVT adder table. I originally had the car tuned by Overkill and he just 0'd the VVT adder table anyway, so further providing evidence that the adder table is pointless (or maybe it's just not applicable to this engine). If the four main spark tables in the E69 are there for different cam settings then it makes sense that they should just be all the same.

Regarding better mileage with more overlap during cruising, I haven't played with the cruising area much, but having both cams at 0/home position (minimal overlap), and then a total of 12 degrees overlap (intake set to 4, exhaust to 8), my fuel consumption as per the injector flow rate parameter was the same, running between 13.80 and 14.00 g/s, at a very steady 120 km/h. Perhaps I'll add another 6 or 12 degrees of overlap and see what happens.

[michaelkrusmark]

thank you all for the help. i believe my kr is real but I'm not having luck getting rid of it. i have fueling tuned in per the way the lnf guys do it. and unplugging the evap made the ltft stay at zero so i just used the stft. my timing tables are rpm vs load % because the LLT engine doesn't have a map sensor so i don't think it can do air mass. i have made a table to log kr and will probably do that copy and paste method on that for the mbt tables

when you guys stated that the mbt tables must all be the same, does that mean you want me to copy one of them to the other 3? or does that mean i make my adjustments to all 4 equally?