2012 5.3 won't idle cold

[IH2]

All help is greatly appreciated.

My notes for the log-
timing jumping from 12 to 47 during idle warm up. Had to keep pedal at ~24 to keep it running. Steady pedal resulted in timing and rpm swings. It appears that once the engine crossed a temp threshold around 8:03am the timing calmed down. Still wouldn't idle without help but it only required ~20 pedal to idle at ~1150

tried to let it idle without pedal help- but no love.


at 8:07- reached temp. Idle without pedal help at around 800-850.
at 8:08- dropped into drive and stalled out.

I've been getting a little remote help- but the idle/low speed drivability is just not there. WOT is fun! Just try not to get in a long line at a 4-way stop.

[blindsquirrel]

Is everybody supposed to know what the combo is, or if it's stock and just broken? A year and displacement doesn't give a whole lot to go on.

[Cringer]

Is everybody supposed to know what the combo is, or if it's stock and just broken? A year and displacement doesn't give a whole lot to go on.

https://forum.hptuners.com/showthrea...ing-SUM-150153

[IH2]

Sorry- yes- cam card attached. Base engine was 5.3 iron block SUM-150153
58x and 4x updates. 10:1 and this cam. stock-new injectors, stock intake.
AFR 1506 heads.

[Cringer]

This tune should help.
16th tune - cringer.hpt

You need to log more channels. Use these channels (and you will have to add your widebands in there)
https://drive.google.com/open?id=10a...-&usp=drive_fs
And for the love of all that is holy, stop using AFR and log your wide bands in LAMBDA!

Why are you running open loop. I would highly suggest installing narrowband O2's.

If you intend to run SD I would suggest converting this to the HPT Custom 2 Bar OS.

[IH2]

1st- THANK YOU. I appreciate the help

My "plan"- was to use the wideband sensors as a temporary tool for tuning only. Once the tune was dialed into the physical engine changes, remove the WB and put the narrow band back in- let the ECM do operate normally.

I've updated to your channels and add my WB in lambda.
Did a quick run before loading your tune, to record as is, but with your channels (pre Cringer with WB in Lambda)
then loaded your tune and did a longer warmup run. (Cringer 16 with WB)

It appears to start easier- has less saw tooth in the timing, but its still there. Requires about 24% pedal to keep it running until fully up to temp then about 18% pedal. Won't idle without help. Won't stay running when dropped into gear.

[Cringer]

1st- THANK YOU. I appreciate the help

My "plan"- was to use the wideband sensors as a temporary tool for tuning only. Once the tune was dialed into the physical engine changes, remove the WB and put the narrow band back in- let the ECM do operate normally.

I've updated to your channels and add my WB in lambda.
Did a quick run before loading your tune, to record as is, but with your channels (pre Cringer with WB in Lambda)
then loaded your tune and did a longer warmup run. (Cringer 16 with WB)

It appears to start easier- has less saw tooth in the timing, but its still there. Requires about 24% pedal to keep it running until fully up to temp then about 18% pedal. Won't idle without help. Won't stay running when dropped into gear.

Questions:
What throttle body, intake manifold, and accelerator pedal are you using?


Try this. I have re-enabled the MAF and changed a few other things.
16th tune - cringer2.hpt

[IH2]

Delphi Mass Airflow Sensors AF10060
Stock intake for 2012 silverado 5.3. Looks like delco12638038 Intake Manifold.

[IH2]

Delphi Mass Airflow Sensors AF10060
Stock intake for 2012 silverado 5.3. Looks like delco12638038 Intake Manifold.
Pedal is a delco 20972082

I also have a driving log- but it appears to be too big to upload, so i've shared it on my google drive.


Cringer2 idle log-
fired up, ran 4 seconds and stalled.
Refired up- revedup a little bit extra, then pulled back- and was idling really well. No pedal required.
It idled fine until at temp. We ended this log and started a new one for driving.
It droppped into gear without stalling and did not stall out 1 time on the test drive.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1hM2...ew?usp=sharing

[Cringer]

Delphi Mass Airflow Sensors AF10060
Stock intake for 2012 silverado 5.3. Looks like delco12638038 Intake Manifold.
Pedal is a delco 20972082

I also have a driving log- but it appears to be too big to upload, so i've shared it on my google drive.


Cringer2 idle log-
fired up, ran 4 seconds and stalled.
Refired up- revedup a little bit extra, then pulled back- and was idling really well. No pedal required.
It idled fine until at temp. We ended this log and started a new one for driving.
It droppped into gear without stalling and did not stall out 1 time on the test drive.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1hM2...ew?usp=sharing

OK good to hear. Not much else I can do until you get both B1 and B2 narrowbands back in and working so you can get the truck in closed loop. Those widebands are giving strange results as they hit 1.5 lambda and then flatline for a while, so I don't even trust them for OL tuning...and chances are it is going lean (maybe 1.5 lambda is the max lean these units can read?). Also, be aware that timing has not been changed and this thing really needs to be fully tuned before you really start being aggressive...combined with the fact that it probably is going lean...not a good combo.

[IH2]

I looked it up- you are correct the innovative LC2 with 4.9 sensors have a range of .50 to 1.50 lambda.

I'll swap back to the factory NB tomorrow and take another read. We haven't been aggressive on test drives. The truck is for my 82yr old dad. He's petty chill most of the time. But he has giggled a lot while test driving.

On the timing- I've searched for the answer on this. We swapped from the aluminum 5.3 to the iron 5.3. The knock sensors were the same part number, and very close to the same location. But I keep thinking the aluminum block would have a different setting for the sensor than the iron block in the ECU.

[IH2]

I edited the tune to try to remove the forced open loop/maf tuning. I've uploaded that here.

1- Idle warm up log- It really didn't take long for it to idle on its own. and ready for a test drive.
2- 1st driving log that was very complete was crashed VCM scanner and lost the log. After about 10 minutes driving, it showed LTFT on 2nd bank at 100% and went into limp mode. idling at ~550 RPM and no response to pedal input. Pulled over/coasted over. shut it down. Waited 60 seconds, fired it up and drove about 3 minutes and it did it again. Pulled over, MPH was jumping from 40-0-40-0 like the connection was loose, but all others seemed stable. Shut it down, tried to save the log, and this is where the scanner crashed. waited 60 seconds. I started a new log and drove home. The 100% LTFT did not show up on the rest of the drive.
3- Back at the barn, did a new log for idle with P+A/C, D+A/C shifts. Then some gentle revs and throttle blips.

While still quite rough, this is about the best its done since the engine swap.

[Cringer]

I edited the tune to try to remove the forced open loop/maf tuning. I've uploaded that here.

1- Idle warm up log- It really didn't take long for it to idle on its own. and ready for a test drive.
2- 1st driving log that was very complete was crashed VCM scanner and lost the log. After about 10 minutes driving, it showed LTFT on 2nd bank at 100% and went into limp mode. idling at ~550 RPM and no response to pedal input. Pulled over/coasted over. shut it down. Waited 60 seconds, fired it up and drove about 3 minutes and it did it again. Pulled over, MPH was jumping from 40-0-40-0 like the connection was loose, but all others seemed stable. Shut it down, tried to save the log, and this is where the scanner crashed. waited 60 seconds. I started a new log and drove home. The 100% LTFT did not show up on the rest of the drive.
3- Back at the barn, did a new log for idle with P+A/C, D+A/C shifts. Then some gentle revs and throttle blips.

While still quite rough, this is about the best its done since the engine swap.

Now you have a start to begin your tuning and shaking out the electrical bugs. I would suggest using the attached tune for the tuning process. Just a few changes here and there to make life easier. LTFT has been disabled and I would suggest keeping it that way. Either leave them off forever or enable them when done tuning.
16th tune - cringer3 NB closed loop.hpt

[Alvin]

there is a lot wrong with the tune.

Why is it in open loop?

The VE down low is a mess.. likely cause boundaries need to be adjusted properly. It has a ton of torque limiters in it still and Idle minimum airflow is way high. I guess what I'm saying is I"ve seen enough rough work that it should really be started over on.

[IH2]

All help is appreciated!

I've been watching youtube and studying Cringers methods for VE, MAF. Most of the adjustments you see are from a MOT that was the basis of what I uploaded here, and Cringer made a few changes that made it idle better. We were struggling to keep it running without tapping our right foot along with beat. I'm open to trying whatever, as 99% of the people on here have more experience than me.

I was considering if i can put the widebands back in, and connecting them to both the VCM Scanner and the narrow band input on the ECM, to allow for closed loop and reading more resolution.

My goal is drivability and pass emissions.

[edcmat-l1]

All help is appreciated!

I've been watching youtube and studying Cringers methods for VE, MAF. Most of the adjustments you see are from a MOT that was the basis of what I uploaded here, and Cringer made a few changes that made it idle better. We were struggling to keep it running without tapping our right foot along with beat. I'm open to trying whatever, as 99% of the people on here have more experience than me.

I was considering if i can put the widebands back in, and connecting them to both the VCM Scanner and the narrow band input on the ECM, to allow for closed loop and reading more resolution.

My goal is drivability and pass emissions.

That's pretty important info. What type of emissions testing? This a monitor check or a real "smog" test? That cam is never passing a smog test.

[IH2]

Just a monitor check.
All 2001 - 2022 model year vehicles subject to emissions inspections will receive a three-part inspection:
- An OBD test to check a vehicle's emissions control performance history;
- A fuel cap inspection to check for adequate seal; and
- A visual inspection of the catalytic converter to check for tampering or removal.

[IH2]

Thanks. it runs like there is a lot wrong with it too. Cringer got me running a little better but I think the MOT had too much to over come with a few tunes back and forth here- I'm going to dig through and see what I can do.

I've not messed with the VVE tables, but I had a feeling from all of the youtube videos that it was a problem. I've been trying to learn the VE assistant from Cringer but haven't been able to get my units to match up. VCM Editor shows kPa instead of a ratio and I've not figured out how to swap it to ratio.

[Cringer]

Thanks. it runs like there is a lot wrong with it too. Cringer got me running a little better but I think the MOT had too much to over come with a few tunes back and forth here- I'm going to dig through and see what I can do.

I've not messed with the VVE tables, but I had a feeling from all of the youtube videos that it was a problem. I've been trying to learn the VE assistant from Cringer but haven't been able to get my units to match up. VCM Editor shows kPa instead of a ratio and I've not figured out how to swap it to ratio.

You have an Gen4 E38 ECM so VVE uses kPa. Pressure Ratio is a Gen 5 thing (although here are a couple of Gen4's that do use PR). Your editor should be in MAP kPa and so should your scanner chart.

[IH2]

Thank you for the clarification. I spent a silly amount of time trying to make that chart do ratios- that would also paste in to the VE assistant.

I've got a new tune from MOT. I'll try it as well as the baseline tune that i'm working up from.