Fluxuating EIO Readout with LC-1 WB

[RoninsDenali]

Ok, first i thought the problem was i had the AFR range set too small... only 12-16, so i reprogrammed the LC-1 to a range of 10-18. (Also setting the VCM scanner properly) Now whats happening is the scanner shows rapid fluxations in the AFR, from where the engine actually is (~13.5 right now) and then crashing immediately to the bottom of the scale (10afr/0v) creating this nice sawtooth pattern on the chart.

I figured it was just the LC-1 being stupid so i unhooked the EIO wires, knowing that with no connection it should just hover around the center of the scale. But to my surprise, it continues to log these rapid fluctations. (from center scale, crashing to the bottom) Its making me wonder if my MVPI interface might be damaged?

[MeentSS02]

Yeah...that sounds like an interface (or maybe grounding thereof) issue...if you've gone over the wiring, and you can verify the LC-1 is working with their logworks software, I'd look next to the interface.

[RoninsDenali]

Yea, the logwerks software shows nice consistant AFR readings, which match the hi points of the VCM Scanners capture (+/- 1% approx) I have tried slowing the refresh rate of the Analog output down to 1/6th of a second but no change.

I think im going to go back and doublely check my ground point. And solder it this time, although soldering when its 30 degrees outside will be interesting lol.

[MeentSS02]

Brrrrrrrrr...FWIW, I have everything and its mother grounded to the same spot - LC-1, XD-1, and EIO all share the same ground.

I was actually having issues with erratic readings at idle, and it turned out that my O2 bung is a little warped, and was letting air seep through. I was pissed to figure this one out, as I now get to go back and retune everything. At least WOT didn't change

[RoninsDenali]

Heh, now it seems like the LC-1 is the culprit. I'm getting 0v over both analogs. As captured by VCM Scanner, 0mV on the O2 sensors its simulating and a flat 10.0afr on teh wideband. (0v) So... its begining to look like the DAC on my LC-1 had a lifespan of 2 days oh joy...

[MeentSS02]

Doh...that really sucks. I have one of their first units from their second batch (not the one with the metallic wire, but the next version), and I've had no problems at all to this date. Maybe I just got lucky...

[RoninsDenali]

What exactly do you mean by "metallic wire" the metallic insulation perhaps? Maybe i got a first run unit that i know others have had problems with the DAC going kaput... Oh well i think im gonna give Innovative a call rather than screwing around with it considering the wind is blowing so hard right now it really could cause damage to my hood / doors if i leave em open lol.

[MeentSS02]

What exactly do you mean by "metallic wire" the metallic insulation perhaps? Maybe i got a first run unit that i know others have had problems with the DAC going kaput... Oh well i think im gonna give Innovative a call rather than screwing around with it considering the wind is blowing so hard right now it really could cause damage to my hood / doors if i leave em open lol.

The older, first-run units were a 6 wire setup, whereas the new ones use 7 wires (at least I think that's how many each have...the new ones just have one more). The older ones weren't out long before they changed to the 7 wire setup...

If it is an older unit, they had a wire that was a metallic color I guess

[RoninsDenali]

Ahh, well i got a 7 wire system anyway so atleast i dont have a "old" unit, just a dead one.


I just got off the phone with Innovate, basicaly the DAC is fried yay. And the reasoning is that i never hooked a ground between the O2B1 signal ground to the rest of em? Never really thought that would make much of a difference but whatever. Either way i gotta send it back.

Heh, looks like i got the shaft with all this LC-1 hookup discussions going on. If i waited 2 more days it would have been hooked up right hahaha. Oh well atleast it will give me time to re-engineer my wiring harness i made for it.

[chrisj6]

Well thats sort of a new bullcrap excuse from innovate, theyve give me 3 different explanations from the same guy! And it was also supposed to ship back to me Monday and that still hasnt happened!

Chris

[MeentSS02]

Ahh, well i got a 7 wire system anyway so atleast i dont have a "old" unit, just a dead one.


I just got off the phone with Innovate, basicaly the DAC is fried yay. And the reasoning is that i never hooked a ground between the O2B1 signal ground to the rest of em? Never really thought that would make much of a difference but whatever. Either way i gotta send it back.

Heh, looks like i got the shaft with all this LC-1 hookup discussions going on. If i waited 2 more days it would have been hooked up right hahaha. Oh well atleast it will give me time to re-engineer my wiring harness i made for it.

So I take it you are simulating a narrowband with it?

[RoninsDenali]

Yea... i thought about not bothering, but considering how much of a pain it is getting to my front 02 sensor i was just going to leave it installed. (Either i struggle and get all cut up, or i have to disconnect the front propeller shaft)

Oh well atleast i got me VE table close enough i can just leave it in open loop until it gets fixed... Too lazy to put my regular O2 back in...

[MeentSS02]

After watching my narrowbands flatline with my headers, I've since never had them back in. I don't think they'll ever see my car again.

[vegasvato]

a question about 0mv on the scanner... when in openloop do the O2 still switch. I mean when I log in openloop my afr NB O2's ready very low and somtimes O. when I returned back to closedloop they seem to switch fine? By the way I grounded all my ground to a common location I sure hope the LC-1 is not dead. I haven't event begun to tune just checking things out.

[RoninsDenali]

a question about 0mv on the scanner... when in openloop do the O2 still switch. I mean when I log in openloop my afr NB O2's ready very low and somtimes O. when I returned back to closedloop they seem to switch fine? By the way I grounded all my ground to a common location I sure hope the LC-1 is not dead. I haven't event begun to tune just checking things out.

Even when in open-loop my B2S1 O2 sensor typically was reading around 900mV as i was commanding a 13.0 afr for safety reasons. So they'll still read relative to afr, but wont switch as the sin-wave generated is from the STFT's fluxating just above and below the 14.7afr. Of course, if you still got STFT's enabled in open loop you should still see some switching, i disabled mine for logging/tuning purposes.

[vegasvato]

man this has me confused?! how could I check for proper function... using their program to read AFR... when I put the car into closedloop they began to switch around now I don't know... Kinda pissed I went with innovate now. Should I put every thing back to normal NB 02 and send this thing to them???? any simple checks... thanks vv

[RoninsDenali]

I'd just throw you engine back into closed loop and watch the fuel trims... If you see the bank that the wideband simulation is installed go crazy with the trims with zero reaction with the logged narrowband then i'd have to say the LC-1's DAC might be screwed like mine is.

[vegasvato]

thanks I'll try that this weekend! really should have spent my money elsewhere!! any suggestions on a new wideband? what about the process of getting this thing replaced/repaired by innovate? again thanks vv.

[jimmyblue]

You should see the AFR bounce continuously in closed
loop but have a fairly symmetric, even-duty-cycle
(about the 0.5V pivot) narrowband waveform. If you
apply a long enough filter time constant it will read as 14.7
AFR but short / no filtering will show you the proportional
fuel dithering the PCM puts on top of the calculated shot
to ensure it gets the threshold cross counts it needs.

The LM-1 has the ability to set the filtering for display /
logging, and the two analog outputs, each independently.
You probably want to look at that for the LC-1, does it
have this feature and can you set it yourself to what
you prefer? Too slow, you miss detail; too fast, you
have a bunch of random noise to overlook.

The chop in the heater power I strongly suspect is an
element of measurement noise, especially using the cig
lighter and chassis sheet metal. The current loop is not
going to be your buddy, the OBDII connector and the
cig lighter ground really ought to be tighter (star
ground) and the heater on/off needs to not jack them
apart, talking from LC-1 signal source ground to EIO
measurement ground. Tenth of an ohm at a couple
amps heater current, do the transform and see how
badly you could be corrupted. A good reason to use
a narrower AFR : volts mapping, but better perhaps
to rewire under the dash if you see a big hit there.
A DMM or 'scope, EIO ground to LC-1 head unit ground
with no cable between, would tell you how bad it is.
I've melted a cig lighter Y plug running LM-1 and a
small inverter, so you know there's some juice going.