SPAL Brushless Fan Control issue

[???]

try running the fan using the functions in the scanner program. you can command it in real time by 1% from 0 to 100% to test it out.

well really 15% to about 89% to be safe. I think it's these old e38 ecm's that are making it seem weird. the logic isn't as simple as I put this % in this temp box and it runs that speed at that temp. it's more like the left the logic in the code for the old relay style on off but used the mosfet to output a pwm instead discreet.

once you confirm it's working correctly with the scanner settings. try putting the factory numbers back in the boxes. then just slide that curve up and down the scale to get the speed to temp you want. but not changing individual numbers. that's how I got mine to work nicely anyways.

[sparroheart]

try running the fan using the functions in the scanner program. you can command it in real time by 1% from 0 to 100% to test it out.

well really 15% to about 89% to be safe. I think it's these old e38 ecm's that are making it seem weird. the logic isn't as simple as I put this % in this temp box and it runs that speed at that temp. it's more like the left the logic in the code for the old relay style on off but used the mosfet to output a pwm instead discreet.

once you confirm it's working correctly with the scanner settings. try putting the factory numbers back in the boxes. then just slide that curve up and down the scale to get the speed to temp you want. but not changing individual numbers. that's how I got mine to work nicely anyways.

Surprisingly, the fan responds to activation commands but not the table! No matter what is changed, you probably on to something here we are dealing with a OE ECU like it's a FuelTech or Holley efi, it is definitely not. Learning curve is tough
Factory numbers might be the smartest thing to do for marrying an ancient controller to a modren fan, will check that, not forgetting the incompatible 128hz pwm that is definitely a part of the problem, i guess even if the fan worked, the command percentage isn't a true representation of what the fan logic interprets and execute.
Will try this fix if no luck i have a programmable brushless fan controller on order

[blindsquirrel]

Brett from SPAL has said that the PWM Hz isn't critical, it will work the same with any freq that makes it do anything at all.

Have you posted a tune file anywhere, so someone can see what you are working with?

[sparroheart]

Brett from SPAL has said that the PWM Hz isn't critical, it will work the same with any freq that makes it do anything at all.

Have you posted a tune file anywhere, so someone can see what you are working with?

No it's with my tuner, he's trying to debug it too, will try to get on the weekend
If the Freq PWM isn't critical, is it like what ??? Said.. E38 logic isn't happy with the desired values we are plugging in?
On more thing, in stand-alone controller literature their's a 5% pwm sent to the fan called 'hello' or 'hand shake' this pulse wont turn on the fan but it will keep it on stand by, it is still a one way communication however we don't know why the designer did this, FWIW in the commercial 800w Spal, from 0 to 15% fan will go into reverse go figure 😀

[blindsquirrel]

This is the Corvette that used the variable speed Siemens module (the one that likes to burn up)? And already has stock settings of PWM Electric @128Hz? And you are having some kind of problem with the SPAL brushless not working right using the stock fan settings? It should work like that. It does not need to be 100Hz (though, I don't think that year E38 is incapable of doing a valid output at 100Hz), it does not need to have the fan type of PWM EV (as it is in the OE apps that used these fans). You are using one of the OE GM-version fans, and not an aftermarket version?

Has anybody bothered to look at what the ECM is outputting with a scope? Pretty hard to do anything other than guess if you can't see the waveform. My E40 originally used PWM EV 2Hz, and would not give anything like a real output using PWM EV at 100 or 128 or any other Hz besides 2. But it works great with PWM Electric.

[???]

This is the Corvette that used the variable speed Siemens module (the one that likes to burn up)? And already has stock settings of PWM Electric @128Hz? And you are having some kind of problem with the SPAL brushless not working right using the stock fan settings? It should work like that. It does not need to be 100Hz (though, I don't think that year E38 is incapable of doing a valid output at 100Hz), it does not need to have the fan type of PWM EV (as it is in the OE apps that used these fans). You are using one of the OE GM-version fans, and not an aftermarket version?

Has anybody bothered to look at what the ECM is outputting with a scope? Pretty hard to do anything other than guess if you can't see the waveform. My E40 originally used PWM EV 2Hz, and would not give anything like a real output using PWM EV at 100 or 128 or any other Hz besides 2. But it works great with PWM Electric.

this is exactly what I did with my 08. it comes with that box to control the normal brushed fan with the pwm. Just remove box, add c7 fan. pos, neg and signal wire and it worked without issue with the stock settings. any time I tried to adjust the settings it didn't work in a way that made sense to me. I then put the stock numbers back in it, copy and pasted them a row to the left for the curve to run at lower Temps for the 180deg stat. it worked and I left it alone from there. I'm 99% sure he has the oem zl1 camaro fan. it should be plug and play with stock settings. I think you're on to something if his tuner changed the drop down box to something else. if I remember right when I googled around doing mine, the c6 ecm had options for the relays, the suv belt driven fan that it can control the speed of and the pwm box.


make sure it's on that pwm setting and put the stock values in the tables as a test. it really should work.

[sparroheart]

this is exactly what I did with my 08. it comes with that box to control the normal brushed fan with the pwm. Just remove box, add c7 fan. pos, neg and signal wire and it worked without issue with the stock settings. any time I tried to adjust the settings it didn't work in a way that made sense to me. I then put the stock numbers back in it, copy and pasted them a row to the left for the curve to run at lower Temps for the 180deg stat. it worked and I left it alone from there. I'm 99% sure he has the oem zl1 camaro fan. it should be plug and play with stock settings. I think you're on to something if his tuner changed the drop down box to something else. if I remember right when I googled around doing mine, the c6 ecm had options for the relays, the suv belt driven fan that it can control the speed of and the pwm box.


make sure it's on that pwm setting and put the stock values in the tables as a test. it really should work.

Thank you guys for your support, seriously people like you are the real asset of forums
I didn't tried the OE settings yet however decided to move away from ECM fan control, reason why is that you may ask, it's because even if the ECM logic agreed to run the new 850w, it was written to run the OE 400w out of the factory, probably it wont makes a different with a 500 or 600w fans but definitely it's a huge difference with a 850w fan, that thing screams under the hood and in reality you wont need anything beyond its 50% capacity, if the ECM cannot offer a linear smooth control it won't do for me, when it was working it was nauseous trust me.

This is the controller i went with, will install it ASAP if you like a follow up let me know

https://www.ebay.com/itm/14363804368...mis&media=COPY

[blindsquirrel]

Nothing about your setup should be any different with the 850W fan than it is with the 600W. The control strategy for both is identical. No issue at all with limiting the max speed by not letting it go all the way to 90% if that's what it needs, but the stepless infinitely-variable part just does what it is told. If it's not doing that then you have some other problem.

[???]

there's a guy on another forum running that box on a ecm that doesn't have own out. he seems to like it.

my only thing is there's not really a ac high side pressure curve. I believe if you turn the ac on it just goes 50% higher speed than what the coolent speed is. or I think that's how he said it worked.


the camaro fan is getting more common to be used. I think your ecm would have controlled it fine. but if your tuners is struggling, I get it. easier to just do what works sometimes.

[sparroheart]

Nothing about your setup should be any different with the 850W fan than it is with the 600W. The control strategy for both is identical. No issue at all with limiting the max speed by not letting it go all the way to 90% if that's what it needs, but the stepless infinitely-variable part just does what it is told. If it's not doing that then you have some other problem.

Didn't tried oem settings yet but it runs after engine shut down and it responds properly to HP activation commands
What gives?
When it was running according with a modified fan table, it was fast and noisy I'm afraid that even if we get it to work , actual speed/cfm will be double of that in the table because of the higher power potential

[sparroheart]

Nothing about your setup should be any different with the 850W fan than it is with the 600W. The control strategy for both is identical. No issue at all with limiting the max speed by not letting it go all the way to 90% if that's what it needs, but the stepless infinitely-variable part just does what it is told. If it's not doing that then you have some other problem.

there's a guy on another forum running that box on a ecm that doesn't have own out. he seems to like it.

my only thing is there's not really a ac high side pressure curve. I believe if you turn the ac on it just goes 50% higher speed than what the coolent speed is. or I think that's how he said it worked.


the camaro fan is getting more common to be used. I think your ecm would have controlled it fine. but if your tuners is struggling, I get it. easier to just do what works sometimes.

With big fans the extra 50% probably isn't needed at all for the air conditioner. It is designed for multi stacked-cooler applications, my guess is it will have enough torque to pull through

[blindsquirrel]

Didn't tried oem settings yet but it runs after engine shut down and it responds properly to HP activation commands
What gives?
When it was running according with a modified fan table, it was fast and noisy I'm afraid that even if we get it to work , actual speed/cfm will be double of that in the table because of the higher power potential

I am all out of ideas for finding new and ever-more creative and colorful ways of telling you that you have some other problem that is causing these issues. I give up.

[gtstorey]

With big fans the extra 50% probably isn't needed at all for the air conditioner. It is designed for multi stacked-cooler applications, my guess is it will have enough torque to pull through

"Torque to pull through" doesn't really mean anything. The more a fan is blocked, the less work it actually does. Blocking the end of a vacuum cleaner doesn't work it harder, it causes it to speed up because of no resistance.

[sparroheart]

Nothing about your setup should be any different with the 850W fan than it is with the 600W. The control strategy for both is identical. No issue at all with limiting the max speed by not letting it go all the way to 90% if that's what it needs, but the stepless infinitely-variable part just does what it is told. If it's not doing that then you have some other problem.

there's a guy on another forum running that box on a ecm that doesn't have own out. he seems to like it.

my only thing is there's not really a ac high side pressure curve. I believe if you turn the ac on it just goes 50% higher speed than what the coolent speed is. or I think that's how he said it worked.


the camaro fan is getting more common to be used. I think your ecm would have controlled it fine. but if your tuners is struggling, I get it. easier to just do what works sometimes.

"Torque to pull through" doesn't really mean anything. The more a fan is blocked, the less work it actually does. Blocking the end of a vacuum cleaner doesn't work it harder, it causes it to speed up because of no resistance.

Multi Stacking isnt necessarily means "blocking"
Lookup camaro zl1 6th gen coolers stack

[gtstorey]

Multi Stacking isnt necessarily means "blocking"

Reduced airflow doesn't mean it needs more torque. It does means that it needs more RPM to move the same amount of air. It also means that it is actually pulling less amperage for the same fan speed.

[blindsquirrel]

See also: Stall