Results 1 to 7 of 7

Thread: Getting to know your ZF TCM. Sticky please for updates.

  1. #1

    Getting to know your ZF TCM. Sticky please for updates.

    Quote Originally Posted by Steven@HPTuners View Post
    The ZF8 is used in many applications and when we originally added it last year, we tried to make it a little more Dodge specific, but quickly realized this was not an easy effort, especially as we add more manufacturers.
    The ZF8 is better thought of as its own controller by itself and not a "Dodge" controller, because that's what it really is.

    4WD Low are used only during 4WD Low applications, but the Hellcat does not ever use these. The reason you still see the tables is the operating system used by the Hellcat is not unique to the Hellcat, other applications that do have 4WD Low (the trucks) also have the same operating system. Because we define things by operating system, you'll see them in all applications, including unused ones.

    Normal, Perf, Sport, Max: these are shift strategies. Which one is used by which mode is actually quite a cluster and we don't have an easy way to show which is which, so its being added as a loggable parameter in Beta, under "Clutch Shift Type". For example, on a Hellcat, Normal trans mode in Drive, uses "Normal". But put it into Manual Mode with Normal Trans still selected, and now it uses Perf tables.

    It's also considered a "use the highest below this". For example, if your current type is Sport, but the table set only has Normal and Perf, it uses Perf. The idea being that Normal -> Perf -> Sport -> Max have increasing levels of shift speed and feedback.


    As to the "Normal, Normal Perf, Sport, Sport Perf, Track" shift schedules, I've started to relabel some of this to better correspond to whats happening. Basically depending on your actual selected trans mode, how aggressive you're currently driving, and your perceived hill grade, the shift tables are designed to get more or less aggressive.

    To explain this, I'll use the ZF9 as an example as I believe we will move everything to be more like it to better indicate this.

    Attachment 81473
    First, we decide our Aggression level. To do this, we need to know our current Shift Situation (which is basically your trans shift mode. In the Hellcat, Normal, Sport, Track, Valet, etc all have their own "situation"). This is loggable.

    The situation automatically puts you into a certain range of "Driver Type". 0 being the least aggressive driver, up to a max of 14 being the most aggressive driver.
    As well, there's a constant "counter" running thats basically an indication of the current aggression of your actions. Some situations may have a range, for example, 20 to 200 for your aggression counter. As you move up the counter, you start moving into higher driver types.

    Finally, your driver type is mapped into an "Aggression". For example, we have lower type = 0, upper type = 4, lower aggression = 0, upper aggression = 1, this means that driver type 0 is aggression 0, driver type 4 is aggression 1. In between driver types are blended between the various aggressions.

    For Dodge, we simply named the aggression modes. Normal = 0, Normal Perf = 1, Sport = 2, Sport Perf = 3, Track = 4. However, the Shift Pattern Aggression Mapping for the Hellcat actually has the highest aggression being 3, Sport Perf. I.e. the high part of the table for driver types 9-14 actually blends from 4 to 3 aggression.


    Now once you know your aggression, you'll notice there are 5 tables for that given aggression. These correspond to your accel factor / hill grade essentially. On the ZF9, its labelled by the Shift ID youd see if you logged Shift ID, on the ZF8 we still have it labeled "Normal 0, Normal 1, Normal 2, etc."
    Attachment 81474

    But, by using the "Accel Factor" tables, you can see what your final factor will be. Unfortunately this isnt straight forward to describe as the inputs are based on measured G-Forces, estimated road grade, etc. But the gist is Accel Factor 0 is typically when you're going downhill, Accel Factor 1 is normal, 2,3,4 are proceeding amounts of aggression (heavy Gs) or uphill orientation. You can log Accel Factor directly as well to help actually know what you're currently in!


    These are the standard, aggression based maps. As well, the ZF8/9 have 75 MORE maps for various other conditions, though usually not all of them are used. I've placed these in a non-aggression section, and it corresponds to stuff like Cruise Control, Rock Crawl modes, and so on. Which ID is used by the logic depends on what you're doing (Cruise Control), shift situation, accel factor, etc. It all depends on what that type is used for.

    Attachment 81475

    For example, if you have cruise control active with accel factor 1, this particular setup will use Shift Pattern/ID 35 no matter what shift situation you're in.


    BUT WAIT, THERE'S MORE.
    Even once you know this final shift pattern ID, it can be remapped into another ID entirely by one final table. On the ZF8 we tried to show this with a bunch of comboboxes, but ZF9 and moving forward we'll just show the raw table.
    Attachment 81476

    For our example, Cruise Control, Accel Factor 1, we desired pattern 35. However, this final step maps Pattern 35 to Pattern 67. Pattern 35 is never even used!



    I wish I could tell you this is easy or straightforward, but its not. It's a lot to swallow and understand. Transmissions are getting easily as complex as engine controllers, and the ZF especially so because its designed to be used in so many different applications by different OEMs. Because of this insane amount of configurability for the OEMs, the actual mapping itself is equally as configurable.

    Hopefully if you read through this a few times and try to follow along with your calibration, you can start to understand it a little. If you have more questions, just ask, I'll try to answer them as I can!

  2. #2
    reserve

    Transmission Slide 01.png
    "Adaptive Learning"

    [TCM] 30004 Shift Pattern Situation Mapping
    All this does is based on the mode of the car and they all have a mode even valet and Park/Reverse/Neutral. It sets the Driver Count Limits and the Driver Type limits. Floor and ceiling for each setting.

    [TCM] 30003 Driver Type Mapping
    (I think this map is off as driver type should be individual numbers IE 0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14 not paired.)

    The more lead footed you are with the gas pedal the more it adds to the count and the less lead footed you are the more it takes away from the count. Based on that count number it sets a "Driver Type" number 0-14.

    [TCM] 30002 Shift Pattern Aggression Mapping
    This puts both of the upper tables to an aggression shift mapping group.

    *By the way this is laid out it looks like its laid out odd or it could of had alot more variation to it. Or you can force higher driver types to lower driver types and vise versa.* WRONG

    So I think I got it figured out in my head now. The Lower type and the upper type define bottom of the driver type range and the upper driver type range. Its so it knows what minimum driver type counter to tie to the lower aggression mapping (set) and what upper driver type counter to tie to the upper aggression mapping (set). Dodge limits this a lot but you could have 0-1 through 0-14 all have lower type set at 0 as it is just the starting counter.

    Example (Lower Type and Upper Type Settings) if in the mapping Lower Type for 10-11 through 13-14 was set to zero the counter for blending the lower and upper aggression table would start at 0 but because the driver type for shift situation 3 and shift situation 9 have a type minimum of 10 the count would already be blended with 401/600 percent. 66.83 percent of the upper aggression map set (3) and 34.17 percent of the lower aggression map set (4).
    You could also change in 0-1 through 4-5 the upper type from 4 to 14 and it would bias the blending to the lower aggression maping set (0) the same way. 200 would be the max count of 600 if could reach as Shift situation 0 and 2 are limited to a count max of 200. So 200/600 is 33.333 percent is the max you will use of the upper aggression map set (1).

    Example (with stock settings)
    Car is in Shift Situation 3 (Track mode) and you have been aggressive because hellcat. The type counter is at 525. Your driver type is 13. You go to Shift Pattern Aggression Mapping look at 13 get the lower and upper type driver number to look up the minimum count and max count in Shift pattern Driver Type Mapping. It is 401 and 600. Take upper minus lower or 600-401 which equals 199 or 199 steps. You take 525 minus the lower 401 and get 124. You take 124 and divide by 199 to get 62.31 percent of the upper map. Say your heavily braking and your accel is -120 you would take 62.31 percent of the first map in aggression group 3 and 37.69 percent of the first map in aggression group 4 and that would be your output speed trigger point blended number.


    Accel factor tables (used to target single maps out in a set based on forces measured on accelerometer)

    [TCM] 46026 Normal Lookup Type
    [TCM] 46027 Cruise Lookup Type
    [TCM] 46189 Belt Start Generator Lookup Type
    These are the base accel factory type tables for the shift situation. I say base as you can have special cases when this is overridden like the [TCM] 46033 Accel Factor Eco. Eco mode is also shift situation 2.

    Transmission Slide 02.png
    "Manual Mode"

    [TCM] 30001 Shift Pattern Manual Control Mapping
    This is used to direct each shift situation "drive mode" to a shift map for manual mode. M-Gate is when the shift lever is in manual and Triptronic is when the shift lever is in auto and the paddles engage manual mode.

    Both have Electronic Stability triggers associated with each. Dodge set it so its only triggered by two but you could opt to tune it for all 4 triggers.

    Shift situation 7 is valet mode and in valet mode you can not use paddles but you can put the shift into manual mode. The triptronic side even though its set for 27 will never trigger.

    Shift situation mapping from older betas. 0=normal 1=PRN 2= ECO 3=Track 4=Sport 7=valet Unknown 5=Sand/Mud Might not be for hellcats but it is mapped in [TCM] 30004 9=Unknown It is mapped in [TCM] 30004 6,8,10-13 are not mapped in [TCM] 30004 so my best uneducated guess is they are not used in this example with a hellcat.

    *
    *Manual mode has some oss limit maps I'll have to add*
    *

    Transmission Slide 03.png
    "Acceleration Factor"

    All of these layouts just point to certain maps in groups and they are in order. 0 points to the first and 1 points to the next and 2 points to the one after that and so on.

    Example
    [TCM] 46033 Accel Factor Eco
    This is the accel map for eco. Well you might say it has 5 map points and you can only see 4 in the grayed out pull down menu labeled Eco. It really has another map 46. The logical way to come to that conclusion is its mapped 5 times. Then you see if 46 is tied to any other group set its not. Open it up and see if it closely matches the pattern of the other maps in the group and it does. Then you check to see if its mapped in the TCM 3000 Shift Pattern Mapping tab.

    This is reserved for Shift scheduling additions.
    Last edited by JoshCP527; 10-01-2018 at 09:10 PM.

  3. #3
    Reserve 2

  4. #4
    Reserve 3 note to self don't edit on phone.....

  5. #5
    Tuner in Training
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
    Location
    SK, Canada
    Posts
    44
    I see you mentioning the ZF9 in your post have you actually pulled a ZF9 TCM read and been able to view any values. I've got multiple reads on my 2016 Cherokee with the ZF9 however none of the HP Tuner software supports it yet. I've been waiting for a definition file from HP tuners for a while now. Hoping something comes soon.

  6. #6
    Tuner in Training
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Posts
    15
    With the latest beta it looks similar but obviously different with the new Ram EcoDiesel shifting. Do you have any literature documentation on this yet?

  7. #7
    Advanced Tuner
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Baltimore, Md
    Posts
    840
    Can you post the actual formula/flow chart from front to back and what we have to log in scanner so at any given point we can look at these values and then see exactly where its choosing its time to shift at?

    Need to log a "Type Counter"? "Driver Type"? "Shift Situation"? "Shift ID"? "Accel Factor"?


    Same thing with TCC. I THINK it chooses a TCC Pattern map based off if its in Sport 2 for example, which is mapped to TCC Pattern 8 in example. Then in TCC Mapping Pattern 8 shows "31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38" which you then open Maps 31-40 table - and the last digit of each (31, 32, 33 etc) is the TCC settings for that individual gear? As in allowed slip?
    Attached Files Attached Files
    Last edited by GrannySShifting; 06-07-2019 at 08:11 AM.
    Factory Stock 97 SS M6 13.51 @ 104.3 mph
    Stock Longblock LS1 w/ 233/238 P.S.I. Cam
    10.81 @ 126.9 Full interior, six speed on 275 radials, a decade ago

    '99 TA trunk mounted 76mm 6 Liter
    9.0s in '09 @ 153 MPH

    Turbo 5.3 Volvo 740 Wagon
    32psi and still winding out 5th on the highway somewhere