CAM Install

[arthansen]

This week I am installing a new Cam. It is a FI Cam and it should work well with my NO but it is mainly prep for a Super Charger. Here are the specs;

ZZP X-P Hot Cam

Intake Angle 212
Exaust Angle 224
Intake Lift 520.000
Exaust Lift 536.000
LSA 116


I know I will need to modify my idle as well as redo my spark and PE tables. What about MAF? Will I need to change that?

Any other V6ers do a Cam change?

[Bill@HPTuners]

from my experience with ls1's you'll probably have to alter the fueling via ifr or ve tables as well as timing and idle as well as possibly iac.

[arthansen]

Any other V6ers out there with beefed up Cams?

I sent my intake manifolds off to ZZPerformance to be P&P while I am doing the cam install and I am awaiting there return. I am so board, no playing with my PCM while the engine is in a hundred peices all over my garage.

[John_F]

I've done 3 cams in my GTP
Started with a ZZP VS cam, then an INTENSE stage 2, now a INTENSE stage 3. In FWD cars they're a PITA :'(

[Nightrida]

i have the zzp gt2 cam. had it installed in march. ls6 springs and retainers, manley pushrods, whisper lid, tci ssf 3200, 3.42, lsd, ta stud gridle, walbro 255,stb, lca. i think thats all.

[arthansen]

John_F, thats a pretty radical CAM. You did the heads too?

Nightrida, yours an F-Body? What year?

The CAM on the F-Body's is not too hard. Didn't even have to take the radiator out. Thats the nice thing about a V6 in a car made for a V8.

[John_F]

Yes, did the Stage 3 heads for this cam and also had the Stage 2 heads when I had that cam.
I seem to have picked up quite a bit with this Stage 3 setup.

Didn't even have to pull the radiator for an F-body cam??, you wouldn't believe the crap we have to do to swap one in :'(

Including mine, I've done 7 cam swaps in GTP's and have a few more scheduled for this winter

[ssms5411]

I have the VS cam, so far I raised my idle and changed my a/f alittle bit. I would also like to know if anything else should be adjusted.

[arthansen]

Did you install the FMU? I have heard that it makes tuning difficult. Do you have a WBO2? I would be interested in how stable your A/F are. My next step is going to be a SC.

[ssms5411]

I run the fmu that came with the kit, 6:1 ratio. I see 80 to over 90 psi at full boost. I'm seeing around 9-10 psi on my boost gauge,and thats with the VS cam, ported heads, intakes and a full 3" exhaust. I really didn't go to crazy with porting though. I wonder what psi it would show on my gauge if it wasn't as free flowing ;D. My pulley is a 2.60" grooved pulley from ASP Racing. I don't have a wideband, but maybe sometime in the future after I get a intercooler. Let me know what you think of my logs.

[Nightrida]

i have a 2000 firebird a4

[Seppo_Kaitainen]

I have not been able to do much yet...

But I had to up the idle rpms a litte. And tweak on the PE table.

[arthansen]

The Cam is in and the car runs. Had a three week delay due to the P&P job on the intake taking a lot longer then I was told. However, it came out beautiful, well worth the wait. I just got it going last night and drove it to work today. I re-loaded the stock .bin file with only what I call "Admin Changes" (Limites, speedometer, DTC codes). Now I will start the tuning process all over.

However, this time it will be a SD tune with no MAF. The design on the 2001 F-body is nice because the MAF just lifts out, increasing flow dramatically through the TB. I will start a new thread on this (or just asdd to Missing2's).

Thanks for everyones input. Now that the car is running, when is 1.5 coming out.

[arthansen]

CAM Update

Everything is working great except I am getting a lot of KR . I guess this is normal for a cam install. I sure hope 1.5 can desensitize the knock sensor. Has anybody else seen this? What have you done?

Art

[ssms5411]

I'm glad to see you got everything in, really can't help on the KR. We'll you've seen my logs ;D I hope you can figure it out. I will try and get another run with the timing retard set at 0 so you can look at it. I ran it the other day with it at 1 setting and there was no kr. Of course our weather has been getting colder here so I'm guessing that has alot to do with it. Good luck.

Also would regapping your plugs to like .050 or going with a colder plug help your knock? Just throwing some ideas out there.

[arthansen]

Already running NGK TR6's at .030 because of the Nitrous. This has to be false knock. There is no audable knock and it maxes out the knock retard at WOT (15*). You would think an event that big would be notisable. The cam has a lot of overlap and that is what I think causes the false knock.

[John_F]

Something is wrong if you're seeing 15* of knock at WOT
If the motors are the same as a N/A Grand Prix, something is not right. I wouldn't be going WOT til you get it figured out. Looks like it may be time to tear it down again and check the alignment dots on the sprockets.
Good Luck.

[arthansen]

I do not think this is real knock and I do not think it is a setup issue.

1. It only happens around 5000 rpms then goes away. I increased the decay and decreased the attack and now the KR only goes to 3*. However, there is still no audible knock.

2. The LTFT, WBO2 readings, and Fuel Cell raedings are right in line.

3. The car is performing great. I use a spreadsheet to calculate HP from log data and I am up 40 hp from my previous best N/A runs. (200 RWHP now up to 240 RWHP)

I think the car has developed a noise that the knock sensor is hearing and it resonates right at 5000 rpms. I went on FirebirdV6.com and there are a number of people with Cam installs that have seen this KR.

Does anyone know where the Knock sensor is on a 2001 3800 Series II motor? It is not shown in my Hayes manual.

[Nightrida]

when i had my cam installed they installed resistor on the wire near the pcm to desenitize the knock sensors. ask matt aka quickv6 that used to work as texas speed.

[arthansen]

I will. Thanks.

I went onto ZZPerformance's web page and they have pages of info on knock in 3800 Series II Engines. They recomend desensitizing the sensor. The guy writting the artical was pulling 15*+ knock and he just raised the threshold value from .5 V to 1.0 V and the false knock went away (he has a big cam and a SC).

On another note, I just made another few runs and the max knock was less then 1*. I only have 100 miles on it so maybe it is just breaking in.

I just hope 1.5 gives us some control. I think by putting a resistor in is just reducing the output voltage. This would have the same effect as raising the threshold. It all makes sence (right up to the point were my engine explodes).