lnf knock that i cant get rid of :(

[projectlnf]

so i have been logging and trying to tune this knock out for like 4 days now and it seems like its most of the time when i tip in (stab the throttle) and what is really weird is once it knocks it will knock for a little while after that in places where i dont normally get knock when it is running good? i have followed cobaltssoverboosters videos and a lot of guides on this forum to help me but it seem like i just cant get rid of it and its never over 3.7 degrees of knock.

my other question is the main spark table... when you subtract the numbers is that advancing spark or retarding spark.. im used to using ecuedit and romraider for the subarus.


car: 2010 cobalt ss 2.0
mods
badmab catless downpipe
turbo xs 3" cat back
zzp front mount kit
turbo xs cai

[cobaltssoverbooster]

U say u think it's tip in, so did you add tip in to make it go away?
Mainspark table + is advance - is retard

[projectlnf]

U say u think it's tip in, so did you add tip in to make it go away?
Mainspark table + is advance - is retard

i did add a little bit of tip in where i saw the knock yes by a degree or 2 from stock. its just weird how its always the same amount..

[shabby]

Good luck trying to get rid of all the knock on the lnf, my new car off the dealer lot had knock, and its still knocking 5 years later.

[projectlnf]

Good luck trying to get rid of all the knock on the lnf, my new car off the dealer lot had knock, and its still knocking 5 years later.

wow its almost making me mad... well that being said how much is to much knock on the lnf?

[Breadfan]

I don't know if this will help you since shabby is correct; some LNF knock more than others. Where I live, pump gas seems to top out at 91 octane. I initially had small knock all over the chart. I found that sculpting the WGDCC helped keep down the KR on crappy gas on the transition from low rpm to high. If you push too much air too soon on too low an octane, it will knock. Alternately, you can go the direction I have been going and start adding E85 to increase the effective octane rating. (as well as increasing the fuel delivery) This took care of all of my knock. Don't do that until you are comfortable that you have your pump gas tune balanced out as it isn't supposed to be a fix for knock on incorrect settings but rather an avenue to run more timing without KR.

[projectlnf]

I don't know if this will help you since shabby is correct; some LNF knock more than others. Where I live, pump gas seems to top out at 91 octane. I initially had small knock all over the chart. I found that sculpting the WGDCC helped keep down the KR on crappy gas on the transition from low rpm to high. If you push too much air too soon on too low an octane, it will knock. Alternately, you can go the direction I have been going and start adding E85 to increase the effective octane rating. (as well as increasing the fuel delivery) This took care of all of my knock. Don't do that until you are comfortable that you have your pump gas tune balanced out as it isn't supposed to be a fix for knock on incorrect settings but rather an avenue to run more timing without KR.

thank you but i wish i could get som e85 around me.. closest place is about an hour away that i know of :\ and i just got the hptuner in about 2 weeks ago and my laptop stays in my car lol but im not new to tuning i tunedmy 450hp wrx and i tuned my 300hp turbo civic. but i love the lnf platform. its amazing (other than the knock) but ive been religiously using overboosters videos and write ups since ive had the tuner and the car is running alot better by my standards lol but be my guest and look at the logs and give me some insight and critic it if you want and if something is wrong by all means tell me

thanks guys

[cobaltssoverbooster]

If its under or at 1* u could classify as ghost kr
I'm also on my phone do I haven't seen the log

[projectlnf]

If its under or at 1* u could classify as ghost kr
I'm also on my phone do I haven't seen the log

the max i see is 3.7 but most of the time is arount 1.5 or 2.2 any where in that range is what im seeing.. never have i seen anything over 3.7

[Breadfan]

I apologize if I came off wrong. It was not my intent to insinuate that you are a noob. I just wanted to pass on my experience so you know a little KR is not unusual on an LNF and what I did to minimize mine. I've also got a bit of tip-in retard dialed in all the way up to 4000rpm, IIRC. My laptop is also in my car. Once I get to it I'd be happy to look at your logs and verify whether it looks like my pump gas logs. As far as how much knock, I try for less than 4* occasional and no knock during highway cruising.

[projectlnf]

I apologize if I came off wrong. It was not my intent to insinuate that you are a noob. I just wanted to pass on my experience so you know a little KR is not unusual on an LNF and what I did to minimize mine. I've also got a bit of tip-in retard dialed in all the way up to 4000rpm, IIRC. My laptop is also in my car. Once I get to it I'd be happy to look at your logs and verify whether it looks like my pump gas logs. As far as how much knock, I try for less than 4* occasional and no knock during highway cruising.

oh no man dont worry i didnt think you were insulting me at all thats the reason i signed up on hptuners forums right? get help lol i know im a noob at the hptuners and lnf im just learning and want to learn more and im happy that you guys want to help and i had some tip in up to around 4500 i think and there is no knock at highway maybe if i tip in real hard in like 4th or 5th but thats just me seeing i wasnt goin the right speed and wanted to speed up quickly not trying to wot or anything.

[|V3nom|]

you still running stock spark plugs? i believe theyre the ac delco 41-108, or or if you swapped to a stock spec ngk plug, ngk ILTR5D. itd be a good idea to upgrade to the colder version, 41-102, or ngk LTR6IX. stock plugs are a 5 heat range on the ngk scale, the 102 and ngk LTR6IX are a 6, one step colder and will help with knock and naturally more heat the motor makes since youre making more power than stock. i ordered a set of the ILTR5D at 50k to replace the stockers and they work great, just as good as stock with no problems, but i just ordered a set of the LTR6IX today, 2k later, since its advised to go one step colder on the spark plugs for every 50-75hp increase.

this is just from what ive researched and not actual data on the lnf so someone whos gone this route might have better/more accurate info on this.

[cobaltssoverbooster]

True the lnf does like the 1 steps

[Breadfan]

It looks like there is no temperature drop between IAT and IAT2. My logs all show a temperature drop across the ic not a rise. I don't know if it makes a difference in this case, but it is something I saw that stood out to me on the log.

On the tune it looks like you've got more tip-in retard than me and you seem to be getting slightly higher KR than I did on regular pump gas although nothing ridiculous.

[Iam Broke]

Sorry to say I had KR even at 12* on 93 here on the LNF as you do. I didn't kill it until I went E30 and above except on the one tank of racegas (leaded) I tried.

If you can see the knock sensors under the injectors (doubtful unless you pull the intake mani) you could see if the lead is in the 9 o'clock position as per spec.

Most of my KR was on #2 & 4 also.

Check to see that nothing is rubbing or vibrating in the engine bay that may cause false knock.

[cobaltssoverbooster]

the reason i think the iat's follow eachother is most likely because he has a maf relocate, am i correct?
also, you have all external bolt ons listed, did you happen to change the map sensors to the 3bars and forget to list them(they are the 4 wire pressure sensors)? i just have to ask

cot overtemp table under the fuel section should be all 1.00
and a pe of .82 is pretty rich for the lnf you will make better power at .86 range
if you added fuel to the engine to lower the kr then you are essentially putting a bandaid on the situation.
your advanced table has been rapped so hard you are commanding 1* advance in some spots.

the biggest factor i see going on here is probably the camshaft tables.
the intake main(warm) and main(cold) tables should match eachother. same for the exhaust.
basically by leaving those as is now you are giving the car an option on which cam position it would like to run. if it runs one cam on the first pull then it heats up and runs the other on the second you will have problems.
so lets try this again shall we.....

1) Return all the ignition settings to the factory tables. select one main spark advance table and copy it to the other 3 so they are all the same.
2) since most people do not beat their cars while they are cold take the main(warm) table for the intake and copy it to the main(cold) table for the intake. now do the same for the exhaust.
3) under main(cold) there should be a table labeled factor. if you make that table all 1 it also commands the ecu to run stricly the main(warm) tables. i use it as added security incase i do something stupid. it happens to everyone.
4)copy the warm tables for each cam into the knock angle/ knock table.
now if it knocks it will still run the desired cam positions.
5) try leaning out the pe to .86 range and see if you like that feel. it will probably feel like its happier and it will soot less.
6)run the cot overtemp as all 1.00 to disable cat overtemp protection.
7) for the wgdc there is a cell that designates the maximum allowed dc to be commanded. your iirc is at 95. lift that up to 100 and for the 6k rpm range run a 110% duty cycle commanded on the wgdc correction and it should hold boost at 6k better. if you run the 22.5-23 that the factory 2.5bars u have installed run then it should hold a nice 20-21.5 aroudn 6k.

all these settings may change the way the car gets into boost and or the ammount of fuel that is required to run stoich so you might need to adjust the boost some and also retune the maf.

dont think your tune sucks, those are just minor things i see that are different from what i run. the only problem you seem to really have is the fact you forgot to match the cam tables. other than the advance tables and cams its a great start.

[projectlnf]

you still running stock spark plugs? i believe theyre the ac delco 41-108, or or if you swapped to a stock spec ngk plug, ngk ILTR5D. itd be a good idea to upgrade to the colder version, 41-102, or ngk LTR6IX. stock plugs are a 5 heat range on the ngk scale, the 102 and ngk LTR6IX are a 6, one step colder and will help with knock and naturally more heat the motor makes since youre making more power than stock. i ordered a set of the ILTR5D at 50k to replace the stockers and they work great, just as good as stock with no problems, but i just ordered a set of the LTR6IX today, 2k later, since its advised to go one step colder on the spark plugs for every 50-75hp increase.

this is just from what ive researched and not actual data on the lnf so someone whos gone this route might have better/more accurate info on this.

no im 1 step colder with the ngk's you listed the stock ones i had more knock that i could shake a stick at so i swapped back.... wasted 40 dollar because someone told me the lnf's run better with the acdelco's

[projectlnf]

the reason i think the iat's follow eachother is most likely because he has a maf relocate, am i correct?
also, you have all external bolt ons listed, did you happen to change the map sensors to the 3bars and forget to list them(they are the 4 wire pressure sensors)? i just have to ask

cot overtemp table under the fuel section should be all 1.00
and a pe of .82 is pretty rich for the lnf you will make better power at .86 range
if you added fuel to the engine to lower the kr then you are essentially putting a bandaid on the situation.
your advanced table has been rapped so hard you are commanding 1* advance in some spots.

the biggest factor i see going on here is probably the camshaft tables.
the intake main(warm) and main(cold) tables should match eachother. same for the exhaust.
basically by leaving those as is now you are giving the car an option on which cam position it would like to run. if it runs one cam on the first pull then it heats up and runs the other on the second you will have problems.
so lets try this again shall we.....

1) Return all the ignition settings to the factory tables. select one main spark advance table and copy it to the other 3 so they are all the same.
2) since most people do not beat their cars while they are cold take the main(warm) table for the intake and copy it to the main(cold) table for the intake. now do the same for the exhaust.
3) under main(cold) there should be a table labeled factor. if you make that table all 1 it also commands the ecu to run stricly the main(warm) tables. i use it as added security incase i do something stupid. it happens to everyone.
4)copy the warm tables for each cam into the knock angle/ knock table.
now if it knocks it will still run the desired cam positions.
5) try leaning out the pe to .86 range and see if you like that feel. it will probably feel like its happier and it will soot less.
6)run the cot overtemp as all 1.00 to disable cat overtemp protection.
7) for the wgdc there is a cell that designates the maximum allowed dc to be commanded. your iirc is at 95. lift that up to 100 and for the 6k rpm range run a 110% duty cycle commanded on the wgdc correction and it should hold boost at 6k better. if you run the 22.5-23 that the factory 2.5bars u have installed run then it should hold a nice 20-21.5 aroudn 6k.

all these settings may change the way the car gets into boost and or the ammount of fuel that is required to run stoich so you might need to adjust the boost some and also retune the maf.

dont think your tune sucks, those are just minor things i see that are different from what i run. the only problem you seem to really have is the fact you forgot to match the cam tables. other than the advance tables and cams its a great start.

still on the stock map sensors, and actually no i dont have a maf relocate its still in the intake.. its weird must be a decent intercooler and i was mistaken i actually have the hahn intercooler i need to change that i dont know why i put zzp my local friend informed me of that. i did lean out my mixture this after noon seems alot happier and i just fixed my cam angle maps so i will log tommorrow morning and let you guys know but on a good note most of what i have allready been doing has been helping out alot my knock went from 3.7 to max of 1.5 in a very few cells now

[stromboli86]

Try using the attached config file to log a few more things, something seems off to me. car seems to spool slow and with the DAL's commanded and the WGDC settings, id expect more boost than what i see on the scan. Anyone else notice that?

[cobaltssoverbooster]

i dont think that is his most current file.
that file has the cams still factory for the most part, the cot table is still active, and the boost wgdc is not in the usual setting for 6k rpm
hes probably adjusting some more before he give us a log update.