Help me diagnose my 2006 z06...

[Thacker]

Yes. I have 18 and that's with really, really shitty 90 octane fuel, no mill. .020" and 93 octane fuel, you should be golden.

Where you might have to pull more spark, is lower rpm areas where you transition into the throttle. I'm actually surprised your KR histogram isn't full of KR, and it's just WOT / open loop. That is a pretty clear indicator you have something causing the detonation, and it's not just from being too lean.

Still waiting to hear how you used the top end cleaner.

I used mopar combusion cleaner. I had my dad hold the gas at 800 rpms or so while I sprayed the can into the intake via the PCV connection on the passenger side. Motor bogged but he kept it running. Near the end when the can started getting low I had him shut the motor off while I was still spraying. Soon as it was off I stopped spraying. I closed the hood and let it sit for 3 hours, fired it back up then drove it.

[Thacker]

OP: check your spark plugs.

I pulled the plugs.

[mowton]

I am not sure how a cat can cause detonation. Can someone explain that to me?

So the theory is with the MAP being a bit low at wot, an exhaust blockage might increased cylinder temps and increase the perpensity to detonate/knock.

Ed M

[Nick@Newtech]

here ya go

Load this tune, It will help trust me.

[Nick@Newtech]

Yes. I have 18 and that's with really, really shitty 90 octane fuel, no mill. .020" and 93 octane fuel, you should be golden.

Where you might have to pull more spark, is lower rpm areas where you transition into the throttle. I'm actually surprised your KR histogram isn't full of KR, and it's just WOT / open loop. That is a pretty clear indicator you have something causing the detonation, and it's not just from being too lean.

Still waiting to hear how you used the top end cleaner.

Headers or stock manifolds and cats?

look at the tune i posted for him, run a compare against his current tune. the goal of the tune I posted was to stop his audible knock and hopefully burst knock doesnt kick in. if he gets a wideband I could really help him out.

[Nick@Newtech]

I used mopar combusion cleaner. I had my dad hold the gas at 800 rpms or so while I sprayed the can into the intake via the PCV connection on the passenger side. Motor bogged but he kept it running. Near the end when the can started getting low I had him shut the motor off while I was still spraying. Soon as it was off I stopped spraying. I closed the hood and let it sit for 3 hours, fired it back up then drove it.

This can clog your cats if they were on the car. I just realized this and forgot to ask. from your post it sounds like they were on, hopefully any junk you sent in to the cats will eventually burn through.

[Thacker]

Headers or stock manifolds and cats?

look at the tune i posted for him, run a compare against his current tune. the goal of the tune I posted was to stop his audible knock and hopefully burst knock doesnt kick in. if he gets a wideband I could really help him out.

I appreciate your help. After speaking back with vengeance I was instructed not to change anything on the tune and just bring it back to have them sort it out. If anything happened to the motor or any damage was done I'd rather their tune be the one loaded into the car just for some sort of leverage. Hopefully this all gets sorted out this week.

I installed a catch can last night to help with the oil in the intake.
I picked up a 160 thermostat today I will be installing as well.

[Nick@Newtech]

I do understand your point. I also understand vengeance points, they are assuming you are getting help from an amateur. I am definitely not, but they dont know that. You are doing your own work and driving the car, don't expect any kind of compensation if damage has or will happen IMO, this is the mindset all owners should have. You mod and have your car tuned at your own risk. Those mods will definitely help with detonation.

If anyone looks at the tune I posted up, If I did anything it is to prevent your motor from damage. I reduced your timing in part throttle areas as well and full throttle, Added 3-4 % across the board another 5% high maf area. Limp your car back there and let them sort it out. I wish the best of luck for ya. Please keep us updated.

[MadMax427]

This flat out ridiculous a professional tuner just says "I can't tune it" gives a a vague diagnosis of what the issues are charges 600 bucks and gives you the boot.

Nick this is simply not true and a total LIE.

I charge $590 for a NA dyno tune no matter what I need to do to it. I don't care how complicated the engine is or what I need to do. It includes 1 YEAR of FREE UPDATES. In case someone needs a tweak or changes a cam or whatever.

1 YEAR FREE

So I did not give anybody the boot as you say. Vengeance did not build the car and I spoke with the customer on the dyno by phone to tell him the issue I was having. I made 5-6 pulls testing stuff before I said to myself (THIS CAN NOT BE FIXED WITH A LAPTOP) I never made a full pull on the dyno because of the knock. I shut the dyno pass down as to not cause any damage.

First thing I always look at is bad gas and the simple stuff. We have seen that many times around here. The car was FULL and Vengeance Racing did not have a tech to drain the fuel anyway. I told the customer to drive the old gas out and check the plugs to make sure we did not have a long plug type that was going into the chamber and bring it back.

The MAF was calibrated but he has since CHANGED!!! to an updated MAF. So I expect the fuel to be off a bit and the last thing he should be doing is beating on the car.

Just so you guys know his MAP readings are correct that is what we normally see.

I am not some internet shit talker and don't really care for stuff like this but a lie is a lie and I feel I need to speak up. I am almost 40 years old and have been tuning LS cars since software was available in the early 2000's.

Mr. Thacker did come in today and enlighten me what he found last night. Hopefully he can make a post on his findings. That is not why I am posting in here.

We always do what is best for our customers.

Nick I tried to call you to speak to you in person but the phone number on your site was never answered.

The trash talk about me and Vengeance Racing is unwarranted and total BULLSHIT!!!

Mike Carnahan
Owner/Tuner Vengeance PCM

[Thacker]

Update:

Last night I came home from work and decided to do a once over on the car before I took it to Vengeance today. Upon CLOSE inspection with a LED light I noticed two of my intake manifold bolts were actually overtightened and had cracked my ported manifold in two spots. I don't think it was vacuum leaking but at the same time.. I didn't want to take any chances. I rushed over to Summit and picked up a fast 102 with ls3 fuel rail kit and installed it. I finished up at 3 am. I had trouble getting torque on the bolts due to the fuel rail placement but I figured it was okay. I drove to work on 0 sleep then took the car to vengeance at 2.

Finally got to meet the guys and Mike spent the next 3 hours with me working on the car. He had someone torque the manifold down (the bolts were loose...so I failed on the tighten for sure) and he strapped the car down. The issue is still there... but we made a little progress. The car was only pulling 4-6 degrees in similar spots as before and he even got it to put down 485rwhp and 455rwtq with 13 degrees of timing.:thumbs:

There's still a major problem.

We ruled out fuel pressure as he made 4 runs, even fattening it up as much as 12.0 and it held that AFR even during the detonation.

I had a huge puddle of oil in my old ls7 intake and the chambers of the heads were coated in oil. I wiped as much out when I did the manifold swap but Mike told me it could take a week or two to burn it all up and that could still be causing a problem. The plan is to drive the car around for the next two weeks an then try again.

In the mean time.... does anyone else have any other ideas? Could plugged cats be causing this? We both noted how insanely hot the engine felt with the hood up..... Mike just noted how excessive it seemed as well compared to other cars he has been around.

Anyway, Thank you to vengeance for their time and effort today even if the car still isn't 100%. Progress is progress.

[Nick@Newtech]

Nick this is simply not true and a total LIE.

I charge $590 for a NA dyno tune no matter what I need to do to it. I don't care how complicated the engine is or what I need to do. It includes 1 YEAR of FREE UPDATES. In case someone needs a tweak or changes a cam or whatever.

1 YEAR FREE

So I did not give anybody the boot as you say. Vengeance did not build the car and I spoke with the customer on the dyno by phone to tell him the issue I was having. I made 5-6 pulls testing stuff before I said to myself (THIS CAN NOT BE FIXED WITH A LAPTOP) I never made a full pull on the dyno because of the knock. I shut the dyno pass down as to not cause any damage.

First thing I always look at is bad gas and the simple stuff. We have seen that many times around here. The car was FULL and Vengeance Racing did not have a tech to drain the fuel anyway. I told the customer to drive the old gas out and check the plugs to make sure we did not have a long plug type that was going into the chamber and bring it back.

The MAF was calibrated but he has since CHANGED!!! to an updated MAF. So I expect the fuel to be off a bit and the last thing he should be doing is beating on the car.

Just so you guys know his MAP readings are correct that is what we normally see.

I am not some internet shit talker and don't really care for stuff like this but a lie is a lie and I feel I need to speak up. I am almost 40 years old and have been tuning LS cars since software was available in the early 2000's.

Mr. Thacker did come in today and enlighten me what he found last night. Hopefully he can make a post on his findings. That is not why I am posting in here.

We always do what is best for our customers.

Nick I tried to call you to speak to you in person but the phone number on your site was never answered.

The trash talk about me and Vengeance Racing is unwarranted and total BULLSHIT!!!

Mike Carnahan
Owner/Tuner Vengeance PCM

Well this all boils down to misinformation, that was the point of my post and felt the OP was with holding more information, and was looking for more information. Which now that you have clarified, is true. We all know Vengance and a first rate outfit, at least I do anyways. You are right he should have not even been beating on the car and changing his tune. Especially since he wanted your tune in there for leverage, that really kinda bothered me, as he thinks that Vengance would be held liable for any damages that have occurred since leaving your shop. I informed him his way of thinking is incorrect and will only cost him money.

My apologies if you thought I was bashing your shop inadvertently. I saw your missed call and assumed it was a telemarketer to be honest. GA right? I also have been tuning as long as you, and see a lot of problematic cars come in as well. We all have our own style and approach to a problem, its nice to hear the whole story now.

If you would like me to give you a call tomorrow let me know.

[rio95]

I just looked through the tune and scan you posted and thought I'd offer some advice. In general, I think the tuner is right that there is something obviously wrong with the car as opposed to the tune, assuming the MAF is dialed in (AKA AFR is good).

Your high octane spark table looks fine. I'd consider it pretty conservative, so I doubt your problem is here.

The commanded PE is 0.87 lambda which sounds about right. My car seems to run best at about 0.85 lambda, but I wouldn't consider 0.87 too lean, so I don't think this is your problem. Once again, this is assuming the AFR is actually 0.87 lambda.

The low octane table is strange. Many values are greater than high octane, which makes no sense. This isn't your problem, but I'd ask about this.

Why are the long term fuel trims disabled? I'm guessing the tuner was going to turn them back on, but probably didn't get that far.

It's pretty odd to only use the VE table below 300 rpm. This isn't a pure MAF tune, but was the VE table tuned? If not, it should be turned off completely, but I'd recommend a blended model like stock.

Has anyone recommended that you check for exhaust or something else causing false knock? Maybe that doesn't make sense if you can actually hear it knocking though. Have you checked fuel pressure? You may have a pump or injector issue, but if AFR is good that probably isn't it either. It's very possible the wideband is just wrong. Did they check it with a second one?

Oh and in regards to the MAP reading, I think it's fine. My car reads about the same and I don't see the MAP reading drop as the RPMs increase, so I don't really think you have a restriction.

Lastly, stop driving the car!

[GHuggins]

Update:

Last night I came home from work and decided to do a once over on the car before I took it to Vengeance today. Upon CLOSE inspection with a LED light I noticed two of my intake manifold bolts were actually overtightened and had cracked my ported manifold in two spots. I don't think it was vacuum leaking but at the same time.. I didn't want to take any chances. I rushed over to Summit and picked up a fast 102 with ls3 fuel rail kit and installed it. I finished up at 3 am. I had trouble getting torque on the bolts due to the fuel rail placement but I figured it was okay. I drove to work on 0 sleep then took the car to vengeance at 2.

Finally got to meet the guys and Mike spent the next 3 hours with me working on the car. He had someone torque the manifold down (the bolts were loose...so I failed on the tighten for sure) and he strapped the car down. The issue is still there... but we made a little progress. The car was only pulling 4-6 degrees in similar spots as before and he even got it to put down 485rwhp and 455rwtq with 13 degrees of timing.:thumbs:

There's still a major problem.

We ruled out fuel pressure as he made 4 runs, even fattening it up as much as 12.0 and it held that AFR even during the detonation.

I had a huge puddle of oil in my old ls7 intake and the chambers of the heads were coated in oil. I wiped as much out when I did the manifold swap but Mike told me it could take a week or two to burn it all up and that could still be causing a problem. The plan is to drive the car around for the next two weeks an then try again.

In the mean time.... does anyone else have any other ideas? Could plugged cats be causing this? We both noted how insanely hot the engine felt with the hood up..... Mike just noted how excessive it seemed as well compared to other cars he has been around.

Anyway, Thank you to vengeance for their time and effort today even if the car still isn't 100%. Progress is progress.

Solely from dealership warranty days. If you're really consuming or rather digesting that much oil, I would look into whether or not the lifters are spraying oil up through the pushrods. They should not be if working correctly. lots of gm lifters failed like this and lead to oil consumption. You also won't be able to clean up the carbon in the combustion chambers efficiently without removing the plugs and spraying a foam type top engine cleaner in. Then ease engine over by hand and repeat. Allow to sit over night then turn engine over by hand several revolutions before using a relay jumper to bump the starter several times before cranking it fully with the jumper. I would also leak test the seams in the valve covers. Gm has also released updated valve covers depending on the engine for this problem.

Just some thoughts.

[Thacker]

UPDATE:

Took a temperature gun to my cats with the car idling on jackstands. Passenger = 500+ at inlet, and only 300-400 (major fluctuation after)

Driver side was about 380-400 before cat and 450-500 after cat.


Result? Passenger side cat is clogged like a sumbitch and causing my issues.

Already ordered longtubes and highflow cats and they will be here later next week. After that I will install, and do the dyno tune all over.

:thumbs:

[Thacker]

Update:

Took the car back to vengeance today and all looks great.

Big thanks to Mike for basically tuning the car for the third time as I made three total trips up to Vengeance.

Headers and high flow cats apparently took care of the issue. I finished the install on jackstands over the weekend and took the car back up there today. Car held 20-21 degrees max timing and put out 512rwhp and 476rwtq @ 12.6 AFR. The power seems slightly low to me but after all the drama I've been through I will deal. I suspect he could have leaned it out to make a little more power but I insisted on the 12.6 for safety reasons.

Car has a fast intake, ported and milled heads along with OBX headers.

Once again thanks to Mike and the Vengeance team for their help and advice.

[schpenxel]

Good to hear. They seem to have a really good shop down there.