Gotta be false knock

[TCSS07]

In closed loop the vehicle will always shoot to maintain stoich 14.7 or eq @ 1 but i was talking about the pe ratio earlier (open loop wot fueling)
i tune idle and cruising in closed loop and bring fuel trims in line - i always shoot for 0 to -5% ltft but other people just use stft - to each there own ... or you can put the vehicle in open loop shut off the trims and tune off the wideband only but since i prefer closed loop operation personally i just get my ltft to be 0 to -5% and call it a day fuel trims move day to day so getting them perfect is impossible

[TCSS07]

Well how lean was it reading? ... does it bounce around or hang out lean? ... where is it installed in the exhaust system? How old is the sensor? I've seen cars run like -20% Ltft to get the idle afr in line but it turned out that the sensor placement was wrong and not getting enough exhaust velocity to get accurate readings plus I believe the sensor was a few years old

[FortifySteve]

The wideband was only .4-.7 off from the target but the narrowbands at cruise were around -5% so not bad just that the afr tapered off at the top end. Just cleaning up. Nothing crazy..
the wideband and narrowbands are in the collectors so basically as close and you can get.

[lukearmstrong1990]

youre not pulling and timing based on IAT..... your multiplier tables are set to zero. so the values inn the actual correction table are doing nothing. you need to set the multiplier tables to a number above 1. 0.50 being 50% of the value in the table. 1 being 100% of that value.

youre still going from 16 to 21 degrees too aggressively at 4800rpm. that will cause det.

also look at your minimum timing for torque management. youre telling it that in the event of any torque management even the minimum timing it can run is 23 degrees.

you still need to reduce low rpm PE enable TPS and MAP. theres points in your log where youre getting KR because your MAP is indicating the engine is under load but the tps and MAP data will not enable PE from your settings..... 3000rpm 70KPA 38% throttle during a moderate acceleration logs KR because its still commanding 14.7 and your wideband says 14.7.

[FortifySteve]

Okay Ill check that Multiplier table, I also am not worried about the timing at 4800 rpm because I am not tuning the top end of the table right now, I am also now in PE almost every time I barely touch the throttle, so you are basically saying that I should be in PE my entire drive home?? because that is how its starting to sound especially since as I was driving in this morning the avg was 50-60kpa?
So what would you suggest for timing at cruise? Should I post a comparison of the stock timing map vs the map I have now so you know what I am talking about?

I have also turned off all the torque management tables because this is a manual trans, i have no vss so there is no speed input and the min timing had to be set to the max wot or it would never command the total timing in the table.

[lukearmstrong1990]

Okay Ill check that Multiplier table, I also am not worried about the timing at 4800 rpm because I am not tuning the top end of the table right now, I am also now in PE almost every time I barely touch the throttle, so you are basically saying that I should be in PE my entire drive home?? because that is how its starting to sound especially since as I was driving in this morning the avg was 50-60kpa?
So what would you suggest for timing at cruise? Should I post a comparison of the stock timing map vs the map I have now so you know what I am talking about?

I have also turned off all the torque management tables because this is a manual trans, i have no vss so there is no speed input and the min timing had to be set to the max wot or it would never command the total timing in the table.

with no multiplier value its doing nothing. OK in regards to your increase at 4800 rpm just as long as you know that if left it will cause det.

you're correct about the stock table having more timing in it. but you're forgetting about the very aggressive IAT compensations from factory which remove a lot of what is in the spark table. the spark table isn't exactly what the PCM references.

see attached stock LS3 file and look at IAT corrections and multipliers stock.hpt


KR1.pdfKR2.pdf

im not saying you need PE all the time.... but in the examples above is what I refer to

[FortifySteve]

Ah ok I see what you are getting at, I?ll fix the iat parameters, that would make sense if they are pulling 10 degrees from the base value in the table..
I?ll fix that before my drive home so I have a log of what?s happening.
This has killledd my torque output significantly btw I?m not sure what can be adjusted to fix that.. ideas?

[lukearmstrong1990]

your low air flow spark values are quite low, I could see how it would kill torque.

you can either leave factory IAT correction and edit the spark table knowing those values will be reduced by aggressive corrections.

OR

set your IAT corrections at values that are easy to reference and make sense and the set the multiplier to 1

they don't take much spark with stock camshaft.

the attached file is SD but just look at the spark tables. that was 6.0 manual with intake, full exhaust and stock camshaft
I find they are very sensitive through the 1500-2500rpm range where it move through the 0.32 - 0.48 area

stock_2bar base.hpt

[5FDP]

You can run more timing if you don't run it so lean in PE. 12.8-12.9 is too lean in a truck with stock cam but 12.1-12.3 can get you far more.

I run 89 octane and 21-23 degrees no problem without knock. I slope from mid-high 20's down to low 20's when going from partial throttle medium load to full throttle.

[FortifySteve]

I am running PE at 12.2 already, and I added the IAT multipliers back in from the stock 12 tune.
Regarding Lukes comment about the timing spike, I referenced the stock table and there are numerous 7 degree jumps in timing. Timing stock.PNGTiming modified.PNG

[FortifySteve]

I am just trying to understand where you are coming from, I wasnt have this prob before with way more than 20 at cruise and 21 up top..

[5FDP]

The first picture is a far better curve than the second.

At this point I'd be making the knock sensors less sensitive being that this is a swap vehicle with a transmission never offered with that engine.

[FortifySteve]

How much? This trans was last offered in a gen 3 with the lq4..

[FortifySteve]

Okay I made a bunch of changes.. interesting results. I copied all the spark tables Hi and Low octane, I copied the IAT table and multiplier, also raised the knock sensor voltage 5%
The truck drives 100% better and while there is knock it located in a specific area around 3krpm. Annnd I am getting almost no data when I export it.. wtf

[TCSS07]

post current log and tune

[lukearmstrong1990]

where is the 7 degree jumps from colum to colum above idle areas never seen in driving?

think like a dizzy. it has centrifugal advance to add the timing over a range or RPM to avoid detonation. trial it to prove it to yourself. example being under medium to high load add large amounts of timing in the next column over 3 or 4 rpm points example 2400RPM 10* 2600RPM 16* 2800RPM 22*


after your changes how does the timing in the log compare to your previous given the much greater amount of corrections reducing spark?