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Thread: Chris gets twin turbo's

  1. #1

    Chris gets twin turbo's

    Hi guys,

    Well i finally convinced myself that the maggie had been atop my LS1 for long enough and it was time to have some fun with a set of twin turbo's from Martin and the guys at www.ls1turbo.com.au - keyboard fingers were in need of some exercise and besides i also needed to dust off the tools in the garage

    So the smaller of the two kits (the GenTT, not the GenTTR) was ordered and we took it all out to my good mate Mario's workshop at Autotechnique (www.autotechnique.com.au) to begin the supercharger to twin turbo conversion on my 2002 Holden Monaro.

    After we relocated the PCM and the battery, we were ready to begin.

    The supercharger, intercooler and headers came off easily and it was at this point we also decided to remove the engine. My car has a large cam in it and some heavy valve springs, since we were going back to the stock cam for the turbo's, the heads have to come off to change the springs and also we wanted to check out the bottom end to see what shape the bearings were in. Given you need to drill the crankcase for the oil returns for the turbo's we decided engine out was the easiest way. We were fitting a new clutch and flywheel so the gearbox had to come out anyway.

    After the engine was out we took a look at the big end bearings, which were in great condition so a set of ARP rod bolts was all we did. Drilled and tapped the crankcase for the oil return fitting, swapped the cam, a new set of lifters and valve springs and the engine was ready to go back in again.

    This kits uses extension pipes from the stock cast manifolds (lucky i kept those things from 5 years ago) that are swapped left to right so they face forwards. The turbos then mount on a flange with the inlet facing towards the headlight. Dump pipes run back alongside the manifolds and between the chassis rail.



    We put a lot of heat shield tape on the AC, heater lines and anything else close to the turbo's and pipework to prevent failure.



    Mounting up the LH manifold and extension pipe.



    The intercooler is a good sized thing and fits very well between the AC condenser and the intrusion bar. The AC receiver-dryer needs to be moved up into the right corner to clear the intercooler. The power steering cooler mounts were trimmed off and it is mounted using ties to the AC condensor. There is lots of room to work with. We also made some small top brackets to hold the cooler sightly off the intrusion bar so it wouldn't rub or rattle. It's a very solid mounting.



    A bit of cutting is required to get the pipes up under the RH headlight. a small piece off near the end of the chassis rail and also under the headlight itself. about an inch or so needs to come of the end of the intrusion bar also.

    The kit uses regular bosch BOV's that are mounted nicely in the bar area.



    The LH side requires some cutting to get the air filter tucked away in the corner. If there is a weak point of this kit then i would say the airfilter setup is it, we couldn't help thinking the turbos could have been set back a bit further to alleviate the squashyness of it all around the headlight area, however i'm sure it is a vehicle specific problem and a differnt extension pipe for each vehicle type would probably drive the cost of the kit up. Anyway, a very minor issue on an otherwise straightforward install.



    a front view showing all the pipework, at this point we were thinking, oh dear, i wonder if the bar is gonna go back on.. The answer? hell yeah!! think we had to cut maybe 1/2 inch off one of the spotlight mounts to clear a pipe and that was it!!



    The completed RH turbo, with all oil/water lines connected and heat bags on. The kits comes with excellent braided lines and t-pieces so its just a bolt together exercise.



    The LH side.



    The whole engine bay, you can see the top mounts we made for the cooler to intrusion bar here.



    And the final product with the front bar on. The install is totally stealth and a coat of black paint on the cooler would make it basically invisible - no i won't be doing that



    With the stock cam, and cast manifolds, thru turbo's the car still has a nice exhaust note, anyway with the whoosh of the turbo's spooling to 12psi and the sounds of the BOV's between gears has bought a whole new aspect to driving And i thought blower whine was cool (it still is BTW).

    We're just sorting thru a couple of minor clutch issues and should be hitting the dyno tomorrow for a good workout and what i think will be some impressive numbers! The force of the seat pushing in my back tells me so...

    Thanks again to Mario, Cam and the boys at Autotechnique for helping me out with this install.

    Chris...
    I count sheep in hex...

  2. #2
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    chris you will love it mate i just finished doing my own gentt install and im blown away with the performance. My tune is nowhere near finished, im running really rich and timing is really conservative but the freaken things still pulls really really hard even at 8psi.
    i cant wait till i fix up my tune and up boost to 10psi, i have a feeling its gonna be causing a few hearattacks lol

    keep us posted and enjoy mate

    gentt.......boost........is........good
    04 VY Commodore ute M6 ls1, 918 valve springs, TR6 plugs, genttrbb twin turbo kit, 60lb seimiens injectors, Bosh 044 fuel pump, SX fuel reg, PLX wideband,Full Castle Hill Exhaust with 2 1/2in dump pipes, 4in cats into twin 3in cat back (no merge), Ripshift, oz700 clutch and 3.73 diff gears

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris@HPTuners
    keyboard fingers were in need of some exercise and besides i also needed to dust off the tools in the garage
    I know the feeling all too well
    It doesn't have to be perfect, it just needs to be done in two weeks...

    A wise man once said "google it"

  4. #4
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    Kind of keeps me inspired to run twin on Jen's car. That is a very nice kit. Me personally, I would go for the stealth look. Great going Chris!

  5. #5
    Señor Tuner MeentSS02's Avatar
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    So who are you going to find with sufficient skills to tune it?
    2008 Viper - now with HPToona - 1/4 Mile Shenanigans Here
    11.02 @ 130

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by MeentSS02
    So who are you going to find with sufficient skills to tune it?
    i know a guy...

    There are a lot of great numbers being seen from this kit, i don't want it for a dyno queen otherwise i would have got the bigger turbo's in the TTR kit. Having never daily driven any turbo car i'm more interested in the feel and the lag of the turbo's. My experience so far (1 days worth of driving, rough tune) is that the spool of the turbo's actually helps traction, as these cars can never get enough tire to put all the power down without serious chassis mods. Be interesting to see what the lag actually is at different RPM's in different gears etc.

    I can tell you already that tire smoke from cruising in 3rd is possible
    I count sheep in hex...

  7. #7
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    Nice and clean, the way it should be. Very nice

  8. #8
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    Chris,

    You should have rode in an auto 'vette with an STS, I did. It was factory stock, less the STS. It would chirp the tires off of a stop, then at 3500 rpms, before the 1 -> 2 shift, the turbo would kick in hard and result in huge tire spin. I was never able to dail in the WOT 1 -> 2 shift. Crazy stuff!
    Last edited by 12secSS; 03-07-2007 at 03:21 PM.

  9. #9
    Señor Tuner MeentSS02's Avatar
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    How's about some videos?
    2008 Viper - now with HPToona - 1/4 Mile Shenanigans Here
    11.02 @ 130

  10. #10
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    Chris that looks amazing good luck with it

  11. #11
    Tuning Addict WS6FirebirdTA00's Avatar
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    sweet!! keep us posted on it.

    What clutch you going with?
    Sulski Performance Tuning
    2000 WS6 M6 - LS6 (long block, refreshed top end), 10.8:1 CR, 90 mm ported FAST, Exo-Skel, 227/232 cam, QTP HVMC, EWP, GMMG, 9" w/4.11s
    2018 Sierra SLT 5.3L A8 - Airaid intake tube, GM Borla catback, L86 Intake/Ported TB

  12. #12
    update.

    We ran the car on the dyno today and it seemed we had the clutch gremlin beat. It made 348rwkw (465rwhp) @ 5200rpm pushing around 9.5psi which about the number these things do. I can up the boost by 2psi if i want, but as i later discovered my clutch sucks a$$.

    Tonite i went out to track and things got a lot worse The "i think the clutch is still slipping" turned into an "OMFG do i even have a clutch?" after the burnout and launch it seemed that all i could grab after 1st gear was the rev limiter due to clutch slip... I couldn't even complete a full pass, it was disapppointing. So after 2 more attempts at easing it off the line and shifting A LOT slower, it was clear it was getting worse so i just gave up

    we don't exactly know what the issue is, as apparently this clutch combo has proven itself in higher horsepower apps than mine, but anyway the next thing this clutch will see is the trash. Removing the clutch 3 times in a week is not my idea of fun

    Chris...
    I count sheep in hex...

  13. #13
    Tuning Addict WS6FirebirdTA00's Avatar
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    damn that sucks man
    Sulski Performance Tuning
    2000 WS6 M6 - LS6 (long block, refreshed top end), 10.8:1 CR, 90 mm ported FAST, Exo-Skel, 227/232 cam, QTP HVMC, EWP, GMMG, 9" w/4.11s
    2018 Sierra SLT 5.3L A8 - Airaid intake tube, GM Borla catback, L86 Intake/Ported TB

  14. #14
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    Cool, I have a feeling you might be calling "Diff Techincs" soon for some axle stubs and half-shafts.

    Check out LS1GTO.com more installs of the GenTT and GenTTR kits.
    2009 G8 GT ... stock... DD

    2005 GTO A4 (heads and cam ) currently broken.... last time 12.4 @ 109 (just a TC)

    Sold: 2001 Chevrolet 2500HD 4X4 8100 vortec RCLB [email protected]

  15. #15
    Супер Модератор EC_Tune's Avatar
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    Chris,
    I think Mike (WS6) just had some very good luck with a clutch lately. Loves the feel and operation too. http://www.hptuners.com/forum/showpo...42&postcount=1
    Always Support Our Troops!

  16. #16
    Tuning Addict WS6FirebirdTA00's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EC_Tune
    Chris,
    I think Mike (WS6) just had some very good luck with a clutch lately. Loves the feel and operation too. http://www.hptuners.com/forum/showpo...42&postcount=1
    Yes sir (that post doenst make it sound as good haha), I was told my car does not make enough power for that clutch so I could skip break in, so it should be a good choice lol. It is suppose to hold 1000 ft lbs of torque or something like that. Got all my issues sorted out as well, none of which were related to the clutch. They have great customer service and Textralia is located in Au. as well. It has a sprung and unsprung disk and grabs like a mofo! Surprisingly, it is incredible on the street as well, very smooth. I also drove this clutch in a D1SC Vette I tune and its holding well at 15+ lbs of boost on a built short block.
    Sulski Performance Tuning
    2000 WS6 M6 - LS6 (long block, refreshed top end), 10.8:1 CR, 90 mm ported FAST, Exo-Skel, 227/232 cam, QTP HVMC, EWP, GMMG, 9" w/4.11s
    2018 Sierra SLT 5.3L A8 - Airaid intake tube, GM Borla catback, L86 Intake/Ported TB

  17. #17
    Advanced Tuner redhotjamedjimi's Avatar
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    sounds like what i did to my truck. crapload of work looks awesome, sounds good but then the clutch slips all over the place and u want to cry. very nice build etc tho. im sure not racing u. not for pinks that is. couldnt count that many car lengths.
    2006 SS Cobalt SC
    Stage 2 ZZP Cams
    Headers, 3.0" Full ZZP Exhaust
    60lb inj. Intake.
    2.8 Pulley
    72# Lb. Supertech Springs
    LNF Ext Valves and lashers
    Cobre H/E, option B.
    Torque Damper
    HPTuned.
    Bitchin'
    .

  18. #18
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    alot of the guys is oz are using these clutches

    http://www.textralia.com.au/index.cfm

    they are virtely bullet proof and have a very good reputation
    04 VY Commodore ute M6 ls1, 918 valve springs, TR6 plugs, genttrbb twin turbo kit, 60lb seimiens injectors, Bosh 044 fuel pump, SX fuel reg, PLX wideband,Full Castle Hill Exhaust with 2 1/2in dump pipes, 4in cats into twin 3in cat back (no merge), Ripshift, oz700 clutch and 3.73 diff gears

  19. #19
    well i finally got the clutch sorted and also installed a kaaz diff over the weekend, waiting for it to break in a bit before hitting the dyno again. Anyway, here's some logs i captured that illustrate the turbo spool times from what i would call regular driving situations/speeds. I always wanted to know how the gear and RPM affected the times, having never driven a turbo car before. so i set out for some experimenting with my new toys. I even learned a few things

    To give you some base, stock cam, M6, 3.46 gears, Kaaz diff. The temperature was around 23C when i recorded these logs, the IATs are maybe 5-10 above that which is great. Quite a change from the s/c for sure which used to hover around 65-70C even on a cold day.

    This first one is at 60kph (35mph) 2nd gear 3000rpm. ~0.7secs from WOT to reach full boost (~10.5psi), some wheelspin. Just over 2secs to get from 60 to 115kph (35-70mph). This is the move you make when the guy in front of you is driving just below the speed limit, then brakes and turns without indicating



    This next one is from around 70kph (45mph) in 3rd gear 2600rpm. takes around 1.2 secs to reach full boost (~11.5psi) and around 4secs from 70-145kph (45-90mph). 3rd gear is my new favorite gear with the turbo's, the midrange torque is great, there is no point going to the 6500rpm limiter, just hit 4th around 5500rpm and it pulls hard from 3500rpm again. The 2600rpm is a little below the ideal RPM (most people would pull 2nd gear from this speed) but just to illustrate the difference for the higher gear.



    This one is from 100kph in 3rd gear 3700rpm, this is the aggressive overtaking method Takes around 0.4 secs to reach full boost (11.3psi) from WOT. 100-145kph (60-90mph) in around 2 secs.



    This is the same as the last but in 4th gear 2900rpm, when you only want to overtake at warp 2... takes around a second to reach full boost (12psi). 4.5 secs 100-160kph (60-100mph).



    This last one is the same test but from 115kph (70mph) 4th gear 3300 rpm. time drops to 0.6secs, just a few hundred rpm almost halving the time. 70-90mph in under 2secs.



    here's a last one showing wheelspin in 2nd gear, this was from a rolling start at around 50kph (30mph) with warm tires. Shows you how strong the power comes on if you manage to time the spool so that it hits at peak torque (around 3800rpm with this cam). Cold tires will break away in 3rd



    For anyone who wanted to know about the lag or whatever, hopefully there's some info there for ya. I dunno what the real defintion of lag is (thats why i didn't call it that above) but anyway make up your own mind! If i was actually useful i would have taken some video, maybe when i'm allowed to leave my keyboard again...

    Anyway, i'm having way too much fun, just as much as when i first bolted the s/c on. Also, i have to say the Kaaz diff is a beautiful thing although quite noisy at low speeds if you are trying to move off and turn at the same time. I'm told it will get better as it wears in, i don't really care to much as it seems to be a million times better than the standard LSD. Hopefully a day at the local circuit will show me just how much better it is.

    Chris...
    I count sheep in hex...

  20. #20
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    I hate you.

    .......but I mean that in the nicest way..............