Please help with LS1 rich condition

[Finnish Fireball]

Sorry DH my intention was not to be lazy, I thought you had edited the airflow already and that's why I asked if you can do it, to avoid too many versions flying back and forth simultaneously. BTW the tune tables show 0.988 not 0.998 if that means anything? Here is the log, maybe there is a little improvement on some areas with new pulsewidths especially around 2000 rpm / 60mph cruise spot. No DTC's.

I also found the deadtimes for my injectors, and another table that says minimum injection time is 0.448, isn't that the same as minimum pulse width. Well I don't know if any of this is what we need or can use, way over my head but maybe you guys know if there's something useful.

What next, should we keep hands off VE and if DH can edit the air volumes based on this?

Tero tune 3.2MAFONLY_INJ Pulse .998.hpl

Bosch 0280158123.jpgBosch.jpg

[Finnish Fireball]

I'd also like to learn why STFTs and LTFTs are this far from each other, isn't LTs supposed to be the end result of long time STs.
To me STFT table is actually starting to look pretty good, near zero or even adding fuel, while the LT table is totally something else.
Maybe the rich on decel is messing that low rpm higher vacuum area?

ST21072025.jpgLT21072025.jpg

[edcmat-l1]

No, I didn't mean subtract .3 I meant start with .3 setting for both tables.

inj min pw.jpg

[abc]

I'd also like to learn why STFTs and LTFTs are this far from each other

ST21072025.jpgLT21072025.jpg

Here is a vid that explains it well enough.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0FrOtKJR8Ac

[Finnish Fireball]

No, I didn't mean subtract .3 I meant start with .3 setting for both tables.

inj min pw.jpg

Thank you sir, I'll try that next. I assume I don't have to worry bout that one table above stating that minimum pulse width for this injector is 0.448

[edcmat-l1]

Thank you sir, I'll try that next. I assume I don't have to worry bout that one table above stating that minimum pulse width for this injector is 0.448

That's low enough it should work. But setting them to .3 isn't going to hurt it any.

[Finnish Fireball]

You are right edcmat, PW 0.304 did not hurt anything but do we see real improvement either? Hard to tell, low speed decel
was better according to WB, log still shows same rich areas, idle especially. Whats the proper next step? Take off
air velocity and drive a log maybe?

Tero tune 3.2MAFONLY_INJ Pulse .304.hpl

[edcmat-l1]

Didn't change a thing. Still stuck at 2.3ms at idle.

You could try jacking around the short pulse limit and adder but I have a feeling the problem is going to be your PCM doesn't have the transient min fuel tab that's typically needed to get the "floor" lowered on the minimum pulse width.

[Finnish Fireball]

Yup, I saw one 1,9ms spot but thats it. I think you are right, this PCM has it's faults. Got to keep tuning the air and VE then. @dhoagland can you finish the tune with your new airflow parameters and let's go from there? Keep it mafonly at this point and move to VE table after velocity is closer

I'm looking at it right now

[Finnish Fireball]

Here is a vid that explains it well enough.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0FrOtKJR8Ac

Cool, thank you!

[dhoagland]

Sorry DH my intention was not to be lazy, I thought you had edited the airflow already and that's why I asked if you can do it, to avoid too many versions flying back and forth simultaneously. BTW the tune tables show 0.988 not 0.998 if that means anything? Here is the log, maybe there is a little improvement on some areas with new pulsewidths especially around 2000 rpm / 60mph cruise spot. No DTC's.

I also found the deadtimes for my injectors, and another table that says minimum injection time is 0.448, isn't that the same as minimum pulse width. Well I don't know if any of this is what we need or can use, way over my head but maybe you guys know if there's something useful.

What next, should we keep hands off VE and if DH can edit the air volumes based on this?

Tero tune 3.2MAFONLY_INJ Pulse .998.hpl

Bosch 0280158123.jpgBosch.jpg

Just saw this
I would not do anything to airflow until you get the injectors 100%

Sorry I misread Ed's instructions on setting the tables

[dhoagland]

Yup, I saw one 1,9ms spot but thats it. I think you are right, this PCM has it's faults. Got to keep tuning the air and VE then. @dhoagland can you finish the tune with your new airflow parameters and let's go from there? Keep it mafonly at this point and move to VE table after velocity is closer

I'll be glad to help adjust based on your logs...
To make sure we are consistant please post your latest tune and logs you would like to adjust to.

[Finnish Fireball]

I'll be glad to help adjust based on your logs...
To make sure we are consistant please post your latest tune and logs you would like to adjust to.

Tero tune 3.2MAFONLY_INJ Pulse .304.hpt
Tero tune 3.2MAFONLY_INJ Pulse .304.hpl

[edcmat-l1]

There's no use in dialing anything in until you can get the injectors to operate at a much low pw. Need to see <1.0ms.

[dhoagland]

There's no use in dialing anything in until you can get the injectors to operate at a much low pw. Need to see <1.0ms.

Ed

Thanks for your input, agreed.

Question.
At one point in the log while decelerating the PW did drop to 1MS and o2's were bottomed, giving the appearence that the changes have worked.
However at the end of the log while idiling they were stuck at 2MS just as before.
Is there something else we might need to be looking at? I know you mentioned a missing table and possibly thats it.

Tero Inj PW.jpg

Tero Inj PW_2.jpg

Again, thanks for the schooling!

[edcmat-l1]

Ed

Thanks for your input, agreed.

Question.
At one point in the log while decelerating the PW did drop to 1MS and o2's were bottomed, giving the appearence that the changes have worked.
However at the end of the log while idiling they were stuck at 2MS just as before.
Is there something else we might need to be looking at? I know you mentioned a missing table and possibly thats it.

Tero Inj PW.jpg

Tero Inj PW_2.jpg

Again, thanks for the schooling!

What you're seeing there is fuel cut. Different than low pw control. It's cutting them off.

The problem is most likely the missing transient tab. Even in the 411s you can't control anything that big without lowering the transient min fuel.

All you can do in this one is screw with the injector data until it works or it doesn't.

[dhoagland]

What you're seeing there is fuel cut. Different than low pw control. It's cutting them off.

The problem is most likely the missing transient tab. Even in the 411s you can't control anything that big without lowering the transient min fuel.

All you can do in this one is screw with the injector data until it works or it doesn't.

Oh Boy...
Thank You Ed

[Finnish Fireball]

I'm trying to find my ways to play with injector data and have a question, can someone educate me on this. Why is FIC 650cc (Bosch 60 lbs) injector HP tuner flow data so much different than their advertised value? See the pics below, FIC ad says 71 lbs/750 cc at 58psi pressure, but in their HP Tuner data flow starts from 82.7 lbs = 870 cc. That's a difference I don't understand

lbs ratings 2.jpglbs ratings.jpg

[Finnish Fireball]

Ok guys I took the bull by the horns and took a giant step with injector data. I saw in some discussion that FIC 650 is 60lbs Bosch injector which I have, but the flow data as shown in previous post is plentiful. Changed all those parameters according to their excel sheet but put everything else back to my base. All airflow, VE, etc as they were. In case this is actually correct data for my injectors.

- Trims are a lot better all over, way closer to zero, as well as air volumes
- No fault codes
- Fuel consumption jumped up
- Coolant temp raised 10 F, weather is the same
- PW at idle still above 2 but now WB shows 14.6 AFR and LTFT only -5 on that cell compared to previous -20 to -15
- THis one I'm not sure but car felt sluggish, or I didn't push the loud pedal enough. Can this move take away power
if the injectors are smaller than their data?
- FIC 540cc injector data is 1:1 what was put in my PCM by the tuner earlier, that I found out today comparing the numbers

What say the jury? Unfortunately the injector data excel is too big to insert here but you'll see it in tune

FIC650.2.hpl
Tero tune 5 base+FIC650data.hpt

[edcmat-l1]

Trims definitely look better. Looks like injectors still bottom out but it should be good enough to keep from setting the codes it was before.

The MAF table is damn high though. Not sure if that's just the case of it being blow-through or not. I do almost everything like this in speed density so I probably don't even have a saved tune file similar for point of reference.

Is the MAF in the stock location? Stock MAF? Do you know if the BOV is open at idle? It should be.